JEANNE ONAUS

JEANNE ONAUS

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-11, 08:30

Re: JEANNE ONAUS née en 1621 à INDIAN NATION

French and English have been my languages from birth; but I have had little need to write in French, so I am sending this communication in English. All of my ancestry can be traced to Nouvelle France. As this is my first posting to this site, I have not been able to format my message as well as I would have liked to.

In reference to the excerpt posted in Re: JEANNE ONAUS née en 1621 à INDIAN NATION, from a former version of PRDH, the multi-volume book version, indicated by the numbers in parentheses:

B: 1651-08-27, N: 1651-08-24


01 PERRINE o: AMERINDIEN (791) C F

02 MARIE / KITARANGOUKOUE o: AMERINDIEN (791) MERE F

03 o: AMERINDIEN (701) PERE M

04 PIERRE /KOUC / LAFLEURDECOGNAC M

05 JEANNE / ONAUS o: AMERINDIEN (791) M F [sic]

06 PIERRE / LEFEBVRE M M

07 JOSEPH I / DUPERON p:02 C M

and the statement: NOTE: LE REGISTRE DE BAPTÊME A PRIORITÉ SUR LE PRDH. DE PLUS, LE REGISTRE DE BAPTÊME EST SOUS-SIGNÉ PAR LE PÈRE JÉSUITE JOSEPH DUPERON.

Bonne lecture.

Père Jacques

It is unfortunate that some unknown reader for PRDH misread the original 27 August 1651 baptism at Trois-Rivières. The misreading, from both the book version and from older versions of the web site, is now almost impossible to correct because it was copied before PRDH acknowledged the error. Since I was involved in filing a correction, here is an account of how PRDH was notified of the misreading:

From my article “All Sources Are Not Created Equal,” originally published in Michigan’s Habitant Heritage, the journal of the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan:

{Among the problems with secondary sources:}

4. Transcription of data in a record is usually incomplete. The record may have more details, sometimes crucial details that could modify the impression created by an excerpt. This is a particular problem when evaluating quotations cited in histories as well. What does the partial quotation omit?

5. Publication of a reader’s transcribed notes can either create or perpetuate errors. Just because something is published does not guarantee eternal accuracy. Later research may have corrected an earlier reader’s misreadings, “guesses,” assumptions, or judgments; or new primary sources may have been located. In this field, research is always ongoing until the last scrap of evidence has been examined, even though it is difficult to have to say: No further evidence has been found to date. Leave it to the novelists to embroider the “facts”.

A good illustration of this problem became the subject of discussion on Rootsweb’s Quebec-Research mail list in July of 2002. I had already written this section of this article by then, so when I saw one of my own citations, published in MHH in April of 2000, being taken too literally, I promptly responded.

PRDH provides what it calls "certificates" of the records available on its web site. Based on information copied from the original documents, these certificates contain data arranged in summary form. The PRDH certificate version of the earliest known record in New France for Pierre Couc dit Lafleur de Cognac reports: On 27 August 1651 at Trois-Rivières, Pierre "Kouc Lafleur", "origin" Cognac , was present (indicated by the letter "p") when three-day-old [sic] Perrine, a female, was baptized. Perrine is called an "Amérindienne" in "origin" by PRDH. Perrine's mother is identified as Marie Kitarangoukoue, whom PRDH gives the "origin" of "Amérindienne". Perrine's father's name is not given, although the "father" is present (p) [sic], but his "origin" is said to be "Amérindien". The certificate lists the presence of "Jeanne Onaus", who is also given the "origin" of "Amérindienne" on the certificate and identified there as spouse of Pierre Lefebvre. When I reproduced this PRDH certificate in my article in 2000, I added: "Although this is the only place I have seen her [Jeanne Onaus, the wife of Pierre Lefebvre] described as an Indian, she is identified as such in this document (Source PRDH online)".

When one Quebec-Research list contributor identified Jeanne as a Native, without any qualifications, another contributor, Fran (Deschamps) LaChance, of Sarnia, Ontario, questioned this as Jeanne’s origin, citing Denis Beauregard’s “Fiche[r] Origine reference: >AUNEAU, Jeanne (F). INSEE:92071. Pl [Place of origin]: Sceaux. Zone: Hauts-de-Seine. [or France] Dest: Québec.< Luckily, and to his credit, the original contributor had kept careful records of his sources for the information, and he informed Fran of my citation in MHH, but without also citing my statement, “Although this is the only place I have seen her described as an Indian [. . .] “. To her credit, Fran took the question to PRDH, and the Webmaster replied to Fran, who then copied the reply to the list:

> I went back to the original document (written in latin) and there is
> no mention of her being an "Amerindienne". I have no idea how or why
> this false information was written there and I hasten to correct it.
> Sorry for the inconvenience. I [n] the absence of this reference, there
> is no reason to think she was not from France. Actually, the Historian
> Marcel Trudel in his "Catalogue des immigrants" writes she was from
> the Perche region but I have no idea where he would have gotten this
> information. No one else mentions the Perche in her case.
>
> The Webmaster
> PRDH

In the meantime, at 7:00 AM (information travels fast on mail lists!), I had replied to Fran’s original question, in part:

I have since examined the microfilm of the original, and it seems to be anyone's guess whether any such identification is given on the record, as it is terribly hard to read.

As I have said so many times, just because it is published or on the net does not make it eternally right. Sometimes it's important to notice ‘how’ a find is reported as well, as I did qualify the identification.

FCHSM member Richard Van Wasshnova wrote to me asking me to “let readers of the FCHSM journal know about the PRDH correction.” Here it is, Richard, your request came just in time.

One more comment: qualifying words found in a citation or index are terribly important, words such as: perhaps, only, although, possibly, it seems, without any further evidence, etc. Unfortunately, most computer genealogy programs until quite recently do not allow the use of these qualifiers, instead requiring a definite name, date, and place. It’s hard to leave those items blank, isn’t it? [Originally written 11 July 2002]
_____________________

After the above excerpt was published, both ancestry.com and pilot.familysearch.org have made available digital images of the baptism in question, and it can be magnified. See

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... 1742;w=918

Trois-Rivières, L'Immaculée Conception, 1634-1743, Image 75 of 1,143

p. 67 of the registry, second entry, written in Latin, as are all the entries in this section

You can see for yourself that the name of the godmother is given as:

Joanna Ona...[cut off in binding]
uxore petri lafebvre [sic]

Uxore is Latin for wife of.

No Indian identification appears for Joanna (Jeanne) or even for Maria Kitarang8K8e or the deceased father of the child baptized as perrine, named by godfather petro Kouc, vulgare (commonly called) lafleur

Only the spelling of the name Kitarang8K8e identifies an Indian origin. The digraph represented here by /8/ is pronounced /ou/ or English /w/ before a vowel.

PRDH now reads:

87278

Trois-Rivières 1651-08-27
Birth :1651-08-24
Rank Name Age M.S. Pr. Sex

01 PERRINE

Origin : AMERINDIENNE
--- c p f

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
02 MARIE KITARANGOUKOUE
MOTHER OF 01
Origin : AMERINDIENNE
--- --- p f

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03
FATHER OF 01
Origin : AMERINDIEN
--- --- p m [sic]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
04 PIERRE KOUC LAFLEUR

Origin : COGNAC
--- --- p m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05 JEANNE ONAUS
SPOUSE OF 06
--- m p f

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
06 PIERRE LEFEBVRE
SPOUSE OF 05
--- m --- m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
07 JOSEPH I DUPERON

Occupation : JESUITE
--- c p m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


© PRDH www.genealogy.umontreal.ca


Also, Jeanne was a godmother on image 70 for a child of Guillaume Isabel, and her name appears on other church documents I have seen and on notarial records (I have several copies). Not once is she given an Autochtone origin.

Those of you who have never examined the registers might be surprised to see, especially in this section for Trois-Rivières, the many Autochtone names identified and recorded, when they were known, by the good fathers in the seventeenth-century. They took care to learn and record the Native languages they encountered in their ministry. Many of them were linguists of extraordinary ability.

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
Suzanne
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Inscrit le: 2009-02-11, 08:11

Jeanne Onaus

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-11, 09:10

My footnotes for the previous posting were not recorded. Here they are:

See Rootsweb archives under subject “Jeanne Aunois (Nounau)”, July 8, 9, 10, 2002.

PRDH #87278 Trois-Rivières 1651-08-27 Birth: 1651-08-24. The word amérindienne itself did not exist until relatively recently. [Author’s note: I should also add that PRDH automatically assumes the father and mother are present and alive if information in the record does not indicate otherwise. This assumption can be misleading. The father of Perrine is actually said to be deceased, so he could not have been present, another misreading ]

I have read that someone believes this Marie Ki-ta-ran-gou-koué is really Marie Mité-oua-me-gou-koué because the last particles, “gou” and “koué” (or “kway”) are the same, and that this Perrine could even be Pierre’s “daughter“. I did not record the source. According to the linguist J. A. (Jean André) Cuoq, Algonquin “k8é” or “koué” means woman, having the same original meaning as the variant “squaw”, today considered a pejorative word because of the negative connotations later given to the word. See Cuoq’s dictionaries and other works on Iroquois and Algonquin languages at Early Canadiana < http://www.canadiana.org/ >

Also spelled Auneau and other variations. See PRDH on-line.

“Connections to the Early Inhabitants of Detroit,” MHH, Vol. 21 #2, April 2000, p. 90.

found at >http://www.francogene.com/migrants/0005.html< Emphasis added.
Message text written by INTERNET:QUEBEC-RESEARCH-L@rootsweb.com
>X-Message: #18 Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:35:39 -0400<
Message sent 7/09/2002 7:00 AM (EDT)
Message for <110435.1567@compuserve.com>; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:51:11 -0400


Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
Suzanne
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Inscrit le: 2009-02-11, 08:11

Messagepar Pierre » 2009-02-11, 11:58

Excellente démonstration de Mme Sommerville sur la fiabilité relative des sources secondaires, dont le PRDH, et des interprétations des généalogistes.

À cette démonstration j’ajoute cela :

En 1650, Trois-Rivières est la capitale des coureurs des bois qui prennent graduellement la relève des Algonquiens pour faire la traite des fourrures. Voir la Relation du père Paul Lejeune sur la mission algonquienne à T-Rivières et la présence des truchements parmi eux en 1632, Radisson, Desgroseillers, Pierre Couc dit La Fleur de Coignac, les Godefroy de Tonnancourt, Marsolet, etc., etc.

Il est clair que Jeanne Auneau est la marraine d’une Sauvagesse. Elle a donc des liens de nature contractuel et sociale voir familiale avec des Sauvages,

Pierre Couc est la parrain de la Sauvagesse. Il a donc lui aussi des liens de nature contractuelle et sociale voir familiale avec les Sauvages.

Couc est interprète franco-iroquois. Il doit également parler la langue algonquienne puisqu’il a épousé une Algonquienne (Marie Mite8ameg8k8e) devant l’Église catholique de France en 1657. Il fait également la traite avec les Sauvages entre T-Rivières et les Grands Lacs (voir le jugement qui pèse contre lui). Tous ses enfants sont dans la traite, qui unis à des Sauvagesses, qui unis à des interprètes du Roy ou à des coureurs des bois.

Bref, qu’elle soit Sauvagesse ou non, Jeanne Auneau a des liens de nature contractuelle, sociale et familiale avec les Sauvages.

À partir de ce constat, la question qui se pose est : est-ce que ses descendants ont également des liens avec eux ?

Jacques Delisle tente depuis des années de démontrer le métissage chez les descendants de Jeanne et de son époux Pierre Lefebvre. Mais de quel métissage parle-t-on ? Celui par les liens du sang, lequel est un indice de la participation des descendants des couples interethniques à la création d’une nouvelle culture dite métisse? Ou cet autre métissage, culturel celui-là, que l’on peut déceler via les liens contractuels, sociaux et familiaux (par parrainage) entre les Sauvages et les Eurocanadiens ?

Car ne nous y trompons pas : si les Sauvages ont été relativement peu nombreux à épouser des sujets eurocanadiens dans la Vallée du Saint-Laurent avant 1763, la vie d'agriculteurs condamnés à vivre à demeure sur un maigre lopin de terre ne devant guère leur sourire, ils ont été très nombreux à tisser avec eux des liens de nature contractuelle, sociale et familiale.

Et si la culture québécoise de base des Québécois/Québécoises dit de souche en était une fondamentalement métisse?
Pierre
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Inscrit le: 2005-03-23, 10:09

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-12, 18:07

Pierre Montour wrote:

<<Couc est interprète franco-iroquois. Il doit également parler la langue algonquienne puisqu’il a épousé une Algonquienne (Marie Mite8ameg8k8e) devant l’Église catholique de France en 1657. Il fait également la traite avec les Sauvages entre T-Rivières et les Grands Lacs (voir le jugement qui pèse contre lui). Tous ses enfants sont dans la traite, qui unis à des Sauvagesses, qui unis à des interprètes du Roy ou à des coureurs des bois.>>

I have found no evidence that Pierre Couc traveled to trade in the Grands Lacs, and I possess copies of just about every known record concerning him and his family. I began to assemble them in about 1998. From one of my thirteen articles on the Pierre Couc family:

<<Other assumptions have been made about the family, for example, that the children without baptisms must have been born in the pays d’en haut, the country upriver from the mother colony. What those who suggest this do not know is that records are lost for Cap de la Madeleine and Saint François du Lac for the crucial period of the births of the children with missing baptisms.(1) Angélique and Isabelle were obviously known to have been baptized or they would not have been allowed to receive the sacrament of matrimony. A guess that Pierre and perhaps all of his family were off trading out in the wilds with the Indians when the unrecorded births occurred is not easily supported, as all legal trading during the early years of the family’s existence was limited to the colony, with Natives coming down to trade for European merchandise and carrying their furs down with them. I’ve seen no evidence Pierre did any legal or illegal trading; instead the documents I’ve seen associate him with tending to his various properties and his involvement in legal disputes (including the court case in 1680-81 in Québec City in connection with his daughter Jeanne’s death in 1679), although he might have traded with the Natives when they came to the colony. (2)>>
_____

Pierre Montour’s comment (voir le jugement qui pèse contre lui) must be alluding to this trading with the Natives, but it was when they came down to the mother colony to trade. There is no evidence Pierre traveled away from the colony, except very early when he is documented as traveling to Iroquoia. See below.

Here is the document Pierre Montour seems to mean. First, my transcription of the document, that I did from a photocopy I ordered from the archives about eight years ago:

Baillage de Trois-Rivières, Reg. 1, 28 juin 1660
Sieur peré contre pierre couc dict lafleur de coignac pour la somme de
450 livres Le dict lafleur disant navoir dequoy payer et davoir presté les dicts marchandises
aux sauvages Avons ordonne que le di[ct] la fleur payera ledict Somme a l arriver de la premiere flotille sauvauges qui descendra aux trois rivieres

TL3,S11, p. 65

And this is the summary that can now be read on the web at BAnQ:

Cote : TL3,S11,P218
Centre : 3-Rivières

Titre, Dates, Quantité
Requête de sieur Peré (Péré) contre Pierre Couc dit la Fleur (Lafleur) de Cognac pour la somme de 450 livres, ledit Lafleur affirmant n'avoir de quoi payer et avoir prêté lesdites marchandises aux Sauvages (Amérindiens). Ordonné de payer à la première flotte de sauvages qui viendra aux Trois-Rivières . - 28 juin 1660
- 1 document(s) textuel(s)

1660 was a very dangerous year in the colony. Continuing from my articles:

<<… the threat from marauding Iroquois was simply too great for most men to go off to trade in the pays d’en haut from the mid-1640s until after the Carignan Regiment soldiers suppressed the Iroquois by 1668. Pierre Couc’s neighbor at Trois Rivières, Pierre Boucher, declared in his Histoire Veritable et Naturelle, written in 1663, that it was almost impossible for men to go into their fields to tend their crops and animals in these years without being killed, wounded, or abducted by the Iroquois. Even the Western Nations (mainly Odawas and Huron-Petuns) were not able to come down the Ottawa River to the mother colony each summer to trade in any numbers. (3) Only after 1669 did legal trade excursions into the pays d’en haut begin to take place to any extent. The last Couc child, Jean Baptiste, was born about 1673, when Pierre was at least in his forties. A misunderstanding of basic history can easily lead to inaccurate leaps of interpretation. It may be romantic to imagine Pierre with his Indian wife and their children living as quasi-legal fur traders or trappers, but the evidence I have seen to this date just does not support such an image, although he was definitely an interpreter of Indian languages, possibly both Algonkin and Iroquois. (4)>>
____

There are 30 documents from the Baillage de Trois-Rivières available at BAnQ. None deal with any specific absences from the colony. Instead they involve “plusieurs outrages lui ayant été faites” (1657); some small sums of money due from or to him; unpaid doctor bills; and a debt “pour être payé 2 minots de blé froment ou 12 livres. Parties d'accord mais ledit la Fleur n'a ni argent ni castor et demande un terme de 1 mois.” (1662); and “la somme de 100 livres restant à payer sur une habitation. Ledit Couc a voulu payer avec une robe et un justaucorps de castor” (1662) {Lest you cite the reference to robe de castor for more than the reference deserves, remember that if he did trade with the Indians in the mother colony, it is not unusual that he would have castor. It was the form of money current in the colony for everyone.}; and matters dealing with his farm lands; and the erection of a “masse de cheminée et un four” that he had not yet paid for; and, “demeurant à Saint-François, défendeur et défaillant pour 224 livres d'un arrêté de compte fait entre les parties le 6 juillet dernier, 36 livres pour 6 minots de blé et 17 planches qu'il lui avait prêtées; ledit la Fleur est condamné à payer la somme de 224 livres” in 1678. In the records of the Conseil souverain are the records concerning the death of his daughter Jeanne Couc and the wounds Pierre received in defending her. He traveled to Québec City for this court case.

Notarial records show the several properties Pierre had at Trois Rivières, Cap de La Madeleine, Sorel, and St. François du Lac. He even hired others to work the land at some of his properties, and he gifted at least two of his daughters with property at their marriage contracts.

Pierre’s son, Louis Couc Montour, can be documented as traveling to trade and to work in the Grand Lacs, but not until he was of age and it became legal to do so. At the age of seventeen he received a concession of land from the seigneur, Crevier, at Saint François du Lac in 1677 and may have worked it. (5) But, as early as 8 August 1688, the year of his marriage, “Louis Couc de Montour” was hired by François de Boisguillet, represented by Jean Boudor, to go to Baye des Puants (Green Bay, Wisconsin). (6) 1688 is two years before Pierre Couc’s death in 1690.

The 1681 census for Saint François du Lac records: Pierre Couque, habitant (inhabitant or resident), age 57 (1624-23); wife Marie, 50 (1631-30); Louis, 20 (1661-60, actually November 1659); Marie, 18 (1663-62) thus easily Marie Angélique, probably born 1661 or 1662); Marguerite, 16 (1663-64, actually baptized 1 June 1664, this census likely taken before June); (7) Élisabeth, 14 (1667); Madeleine, 12 (1669-70); Jean, 8 (1674-73), all children recorded as unmarried. (8) First-born Jeanne had died in 1679. (9)

I have much more on the family based on original documents I have in my possession, including those found in the records of Fort Pontchartrain (Detroit) and the American colonies of New York and Pennsylvania concerning Madame Montour (Isabelle Couc), her sisters, her brothers Louis dit Montour and Jean Baptiste, and her daughter and nieces and at least one nephew; but I cannot possibly summarize all of that here. It is amazing, though, how the actual documents challenge many myths that continue to be perpetuated.

I am sorry I cannot write all of this in French for those of you who do not read English.

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
(1) See Jetté, xiv-xv.
(2) A Louis Lafleur, son of Pierre Lafleur, served as honorary godfather in the absence of François Lemaistre on 11 August 1677 at Montréal for the baptism of François Gerbaux, son of Christophe & Marguerite Lemaistre of Rivière du Loup. Mother of the child is said to be present in Montréal because of the fur trade. Also present Judith “Rogaut” (Rigaud), then wife of Jean de Laplanche and grandmother of the child. This family and Joachim Germaneau (firt husband of Isabelle Couc) had property at Rivière du Loup. If this is truly Louis Couc Lafleur, about to be 18, then this record is the only known example of his signing under this name. Photocopy. I have seen no evidence of another Pierre “Lafleur” with a son named Louis. It is believable that Louis was also in Montréal for the trade fair that was held in the summer when the Indians came down to the colony.
(3) I’ve read these details in several sources too numerous to mention, including Boucher. Boucher’s visit to France was instrumental in convincing the monarch to send the Carignan regiment.
(4) Journal of the Jesuit Fathers, in the year 1652: “On the 21st [of May], two men in a canoe,-one a Frenchman, named La fleur de Cognac, a soldier; the other, a young Algonquin,—having gone to raise their fish-line on the other side of the River, opposite the fort of Three Rivers, were attacked by a volley of 7 or 8 gunshots. The savage died two days later; the Frenchman was wounded, but not seriously. The enemy promptly retreated, being pursued by a number of canoes and shallops.” Also in Desrosiers 2: 3. Léo-Paul Desrosier, Iroquoisie, 1652-1665, Tome 2, Septentrion, 1998: On 19 November 1653, “Lafleur” and Des Mares leave New France with Teharegonen (Tekarihoken, Teharihogen), Mohawk sachem, for the country of the Mohawks / Agniers. “On the same 19th, Teharihogen embarks at 3 Rivers [sic] with sieurs des Mares and la fleur, for Annien¸e. The other Annien¸e´ronnons having embarked, put back and remained at 3 Rivers. “ (Jesuit Relations 1653 and Desrosiers 2: 37) Entry for May 1654: sometime this month, letters received from Des Mares & Lafleur among the Onontagués / Onondagas (Desrosiers 2: 48). 1 July 1654, Des Mares & Lafleur return with Batard Flamand and an embassy of Agniers / Mohawks, having passed the winter in Iroquosie (modern-day New York State). (Desrosiers 2:53) On his return Pierre Couc serves as interpreter at Trois-Rivières. and lives there in the fort, according to Simone Vincens, Madame Montour et son temps, Québec / Amérique, 1979. Hereafter Vincens. In 1660, three years after his marriage, Pierre Couc is “habitant et Interprete pour les sauvages aux trois rivieres” when he purchased land, two arpents by 25 arpents, in the Jesuit seigneurie of Cap de la Magdelaine, from Pierre Cailleau. Note: he is not identified as a fur trader. The sale included a house in the village near the mill, two pigs, at least eight chickens, and a “Cocq”— all for 750 livres. Notary Severin Ameau, 7 January 1660, ANQ photocopy. The family had land at Trois Rivières as well, and Jean Crevier granted land "quatre arpents de front" in Saint François du Lac to Pierre Couc 14 October 1673, Adhémar, ANQ, photocopy.
(5) 26 January 1676, concession of Ile St. Joseph at St. François by seigneur Crevier to Louis Couc, fils de Pierre, Notary Adhémar, #164, photocopy. Louis had, apparently, not yet chosen the dit name of Montour in 1676.
(6) 8 August 1688, Adhémar, ANQ, photocopy.
(7) This census was sent to France in November of 1681. MG 1 - Série G1, NAC F-765.
(8) I count 51 people recorded at Saint François. Pierre owned three fusils and declared 15 (not 14, as sometimes reported) arpents of land that he had developed. He had other land, according to notarial records, and property in Trois Rivières, some of which he and his wife gave to daughter Isabelle at her marriage in 1684, described in the marriage contract.
(9) Jeanne Couc died as a result of an attack that also injured her father. There is no extant evidence that she was raped in this attack, although some writers say she was, and it is possible. Documents for the original inquiry have not survived. See surviving documents concerning the legal appeal Pierre Couc filed: Jugements et déliberations du Conseil souverain: 30 December 1680, II, p. 459; 24 March 1681, II, pp. 523-24.
Suzanne
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PIERRE COUC, HABITANT DU MICHIGAN

Messagepar jdelisle » 2009-02-12, 23:56



Madame Suzanne Sommerville,

Voici la liste des Couc, Couc Lafleur, Couc Montour et des Montour vivant au Michigan sûrement en lien avec les ancêtres de Pierre Montour. Il est très plausible qu'ils étaient dans la traite des fourrures qui pour plusieurs ont vraisemblablement marié des sauvagesses dans la région des Grands Lacs ( l'Ouest de l'Époque).

Voici les liens à cliquer:

( Voir pages 13, 41)dans le document suivant:

http://fchsm.habitant.org/Habitant%20Vo ... 202004.pdf

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin ... id=1012851

Voir dans Index la lettre " C " pour Couc puis cliquer sur Couc pour cliquer sur Nicolas Couc puis cliquer sur " register" et vous avez les principaux descendants de Nicolas Couc et de Elizabeth Templair.

Voici la généalogie: ( Les Couc et Montours en lien avec Trois-Rivières et le Michigan) :On voit plusieurs amérindiennes:

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Entries: 144224 Updated: 2009-02-11 16:47:56 UTC (Wed) Contact: Diane Wolford Sheppard

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Descendant Register, Generation No. 1

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1. Nicolas Couc was born in France, and died AFT 16 APR 1657 in France. He married Elisabeth Templair in France. She was born in France, and died AFT 16 APR 1657 in France.

Child of Nicolas Couc and Elisabeth Templair is:+ 2 i. Pierre Couc was born ABT 1627 in Cognac, Saintes, Saintonge (Charente), France, and died BET 5 APR AND 18 MAY 1690 in St François du Sud, Québec, Canada.






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Descendant Register, Generation No. 2

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2. Pierre Couc (Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1627 in Cognac, Saintes, Saintonge (Charente), France, and died BET 5 APR AND 18 MAY 1690 in St François du Sud, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Miteouamigoukoue , Algonquin Indian 16 APR 1657 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada. She was born ABT 1632 in Québec, Canada, and died BEF 8 JAN 1698/99 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada.

Children of Pierre Couc and Marie Miteouamigoukoue , Algonquin Indian are: 3 i. Jeanne Couc was born BEF 14 JUL 1657 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada, and died 23 OCT 1679 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada.
+ 4 ii. Louis Couc , dit Montour was born ABT 17 NOV 1659 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada, and died APR 1709 in Pays d'en Haut.
+ 5 iii. Marie-Angélique Couc was born BEF 1662 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 7 JAN 1749/50 in Pointe du Lac, Québec, Canada.
+ 6 iv. Marguerite Couc was born 1 JUN 1664 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada.
+ 7 v. Élisabeth Couc was born BEF 1667 in Québec, Canada, and died 1752.
+ 8 vi. Madeleine Couc was born ABT 1669 in Québec, Canada.
+ 9 vii. Jean Couc was born ABT 1673 in Québec, Canada.






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Descendant Register, Generation No. 3

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4. Louis Couc , dit Montour (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 17 NOV 1659 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada, and died APR 1709 in Pays d'en Haut. He married Unknown BEF 1681. He married Unknown Scokie Indian BEF 1683. He married Jeanne Quigetigoucoue , Algonquin Indian 7 JAN 1687/88 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada. She was born ABT 1656.

Child of Louis Couc , dit Montour and Unknown is: 10 i. François Couc was born 4 JUN 1681 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 9 DEC 1700 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada.


Child of Louis Couc , dit Montour and Unknown Scokie Indian is: 11 i. Jacques Couc was born JUL 1683 in Nicolet, Québec, Canada.


Children of Louis Couc , dit Montour and Jeanne Quigetigoucoue , Algonquin Indian are:+ 12 i. Joseph Couc , dit Montour was born ABT NOV 1687 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada.
13 ii. Marie-Madeleine Couc was born BET 1687 AND 1688 in unknown, and died ABT FEB 1696/97 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada.
+ 14 iii. Marie-Anne Couc was born UNKNOWN.




5. Marie-Angélique Couc (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1662 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 7 JAN 1749/50 in Pointe du Lac, Québec, Canada. She married François Delpe , dit St Cerny 30 AUG 1682 in Sorel, Québec, Canada, son of Jean Delpe and Jeanne Unknown. He was born ABT 1647 in France, and died 14 DEC 1725 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada.

Child of Marie-Angélique Couc and François Delpe , dit St Cerny is: 15 i. Louis Delpe , dit St Cerny was born ABT 21 SEP 1684 in Sorel, Québec, Canada. He married Jeanne Bergeron AFT 18 NOV 1725 in date of contract, daughter of François Bergeron and Etiennette Leclerc.




6. Marguerite Couc (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 1 JUN 1664 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada. She married Jean Fafard ABT 1690 in Pays- d'en-haut, son of François Fafard and Marie Richard. He was born 18 SEP 1657 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 1705 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Michel Massé BEF 31 DEC 1705 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Martin Massé and Jeanne Ducorps , dit Leduc. He was born ABT 1671 in Québec, Canada, and died 21 JUN 1730 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Children of Marguerite Couc and Jean Fafard are:+ 16 i. Jean-Baptiste Fafard , dit Maconce was born UNKNOWN, and died ABT 21 DEC 1756 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
+ 17 ii. Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce was born UNKNOWN, and died ABT 29 SEP 1752 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
+ 18 iii. Marie-Madeleine Fafard , dite Macouce was born UNKNOWN.
+ 19 iv. Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce was born UNKNOWN.


Children of Marguerite Couc and Michel Massé are:+ 20 i. Geneviève Massé died in New York?.
21 ii. Françoise Massé died 19 OCT 1733 in Montréal, Québec, Canada. She married Pierre Leduc , dit Soligny 28 MAY 1731 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, son of Jean Leduc and Marguerite Desroches. He was born 7 JUN 1699 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.




7. Élisabeth Couc (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1667 in Québec, Canada, and died 1752. She married Outoutagan (Jean LeBlanc) Ottawa Chief, son of LeTalon Ottawa Chief. She married Joachim Germaneau 30 APR 1684 in Sorel, Québec, Canada, son of Joachim Jean Germaneau and Marie-Catherine Choufy. He was born in St Maxime, Confolens, Limoges, Limousin (Charente), France, and died BEF 5 APR 1717 in Louisville, Québec, Canada. She married Unknown Lamothe ABT 1695. She married Pierre Téchenay BEF 1706, son of Alexandre Téchenay and Marie Bouillon. He was born ABT 1671 in Québec, Canada, and died 2 JUL 1706 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Carondowana Oneida Sachem ABT 1710 in New York.

Child of Élisabeth Couc and Joachim Germaneau is:+ 22 i. Michel Germaneau was born BEF 1695 in Québec, Canada, and died 15 MAY 1734 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.


Child of Élisabeth Couc and Unknown Lamothe is:+ 23 i. Marie-Anne Couc was born ABT 1695 in unknown, and died 22 APR 1730 in Québec, Québec, Canada.




8. Madeleine Couc (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1669 in Québec, Canada. She married Maurice Ménard BEF 1684 in Michillmakinac, Michigan, son of Jacques Ménard , dit Lafontaine and Catherine Forestier. He was born 6 JUN 1664 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, and died 9 MAY 1741 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.

Children of Madeleine Couc and Maurice Ménard are:+ 24 i. Marie-Madeleine Ménard was born ABT 1691 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 22 NOV 1756 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 25 ii. Antoine Ménard was born ABT 28 APR 1695 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 3 JUN 1764 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 26 iii. Louis Ménard was born ABT 1697 in Michilimackinac, Michigan.
27 iv. Pierre Ménard was born 1 MAR 1700/01 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.
28 v. Jean-Baptiste Ménard was born 11 JUL 1703 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.
+ 29 vi. Suzanne Ménard was born 21 JUL 1706 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.
30 vii. Marguerite Ménard was born 20 JUL 1711 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, and died 24 JUL 1711 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.
+ 31 viii. François Ménard was born 6 FEB 1708/09 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.
+ 32 ix. Marguerite Ménard was born ABT 1684 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 25 MAY 1763 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




9. Jean Couc (Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1673 in Québec, Canada. He married Anne Abenaki Indian ABT 1705.

Child of Jean Couc and Anne Abenaki Indian is: 33 i. Jean-Baptiste Couc was born 14 NOV 1706 in Lachine, Québec, Canada.






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Descendant Register, Generation No. 4

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12. Joseph Couc , dit Montour (Louis Couc , dit Montour3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT NOV 1687 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada. He married Elizabeth Monthio , Native American BEF 1711 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.

Children of Joseph Couc , dit Montour and Elizabeth Monthio , Native American are: 34 i. Madeleine Couc , dite Montour was born ABT 30 OCT 1711 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
35 ii. Joseph Couc was born JAN 1713/14 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.




14. Marie-Anne Couc (Louis Couc , dit Montour3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born UNKNOWN. She married Unknown.

Child of Marie-Anne Couc and Unknown is: 36 i. Jean-Baptiste Couc was born 4 FEB 1722/23 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




16. Jean-Baptiste Fafard , dit Maconce (Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born UNKNOWN, and died ABT 21 DEC 1756 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. He married Marguerite Joseph Queroit , Huron Indian 4 NOV 1715 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Joseph Queroit , Huron Indian and Josèphte Huron Indian.

Children of Jean-Baptiste Fafard , dit Maconce and Marguerite Joseph Queroit , Huron Indian are: 37 i. Marguerite Fafard was born 9 MAR 1721/22 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, and died ABT 19 APR 1728 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
38 ii. Marie-Anne Fafard was born 24 AUG 1724 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
39 iii. Nicolas Fafard was born ABT 17 JUL 1727 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.




17. Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce (Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born UNKNOWN, and died ABT 29 SEP 1752 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Louis Javillon , dit Lafeuillade ABT 1722 in Bellevue, Québec. He died ABT 20 SEP 1754 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.

Children of Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce and Louis Javillon , dit Lafeuillade are:+ 40 i. Louis Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 13 JUN 1715 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
41 ii. Jean-Baptiste Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 14 JUL 1721 in Pointe-Claire, Québec, Canada.
42 iii. Antoine Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born ABT 15 APR 1723 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada, and died 24 MAR 1732/33 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
43 iv. Jean Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 14 FEB 1724/25 in Ile Carillon, Québec, Canada, and died 29 MAR 1733 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
44 v. François Marie Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 24 FEB 1726/27 in Ile Carillon, Québec, Canada, and died 20 MAR 1732/33 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
+ 45 vi. Angélique Félicité Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 17 DEC 1728 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
+ 46 vii. Joseph Javillon , dit Lafeuillade was born 17 MAR 1730/31 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
+ 47 viii. Marie-Angélique Javillon was born 15 AUG 1717 in Lachine, Québec, Canada.




18. Marie-Madeleine Fafard , dite Macouce (Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born UNKNOWN. She married Antoine d'Ailleboust , sieur de Coulognes, son of Louis d'Ailleboust , sieur de Coulonges and Félicité Picard. He was born 22 FEB 1697/98 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Child of Marie-Madeleine Fafard , dite Macouce and Antoine d'Ailleboust , sieur de Coulognes is: 48 i. Agnes d'Ailleboust was born 22 JAN 1722/23 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 24 FEB 1722/23 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.




19. Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce (Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born UNKNOWN. She married Jean-Baptiste Turpin 5 MAY 1710 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Alexandre Turpin and Marie-Charlotte Beauvais. He was born 23 NOV 1685 in Montréal, Québec, Canada. She married Unknown. She married Unknown. She married Paul Primeau, son of François Primeau and Thérèse Marie Deniau , dit Destaillis.

Child of Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce and Jean-Baptiste Turpin is:+ 49 i. Jean-Baptiste Turpin was born 14 DEC 1710 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.


Child of Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce and Unknown is: 50 i. Benoît Fafard was born ABT 3 AUG 1723 in Laprairie, Québec, Canada.


Child of Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce and Unknown is: 51 i. Joseph Fafard was born JUL 1725 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.


Child of Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce and Paul Primeau is: 52 i. Louis Primeau was born 27 NOV 1727 in Ile Carillon, Québec, Canada.




20. Geneviève Massé (Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died in New York?. She married John Henrdricks (Johannes Henricus) Lydius 13 FEB 1726/27 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, son of Johannes Lydius , protestant minister and Isabel Stats. He was born 9 JUL 1704 in Albany, New York, and died MAR 1791 in London, England.

Children of Geneviève Massé and John Henrdricks (Johannes Henricus) Lydius are: 53 i. Élisabeth Gertrude Sarah Lydius was born 26 FEB 1727/28 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 18 DEC 1730 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
54 ii. Jean Louis Lydius was born 31 OCT 1729 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
55 iii. Geneviève Agathe Lydius was born 18 DEC 1730 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
56 iv. Nicolaes Jacob Lydius was born ABT 8 OCT 1732 in Albany, New York.
57 v. Maragriet Lydius was born ABT 19 MAY 1734 in Albany, New York.
58 vi. Johannes Henricus Lydius was born ABT 19 MAY 1734 in Albany, New York.
59 vii. Isabella Margrieta Lydius was born ABT 14 JAN 1735/36 in Albany, New York.
60 viii. Zara Maria Lydius was born ABT 7 JUL 1738 in Albany, New York.
61 ix. Balthazar Lydius was born ABT 8 MAR 1739/40 in Albany, New York.
62 x. Catharina Lydius was born ABT 25 SEP 1743 in Albany, New York.




22. Michel Germaneau (Élisabeth Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1695 in Québec, Canada, and died 15 MAY 1734 in Montréal, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Catherine Lécuyer 5 APR 1717 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, daughter of Pierre Lécuyer and Marie Juillet. She was born ABT 3 OCT 1683 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died 9 AUG 1757 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Child of Michel Germaneau and Marie-Catherine Lécuyer is: 63 i. Michel Germaneau was born 29 JUL 1718 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.




23. Marie-Anne Couc (Élisabeth Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1695 in unknown, and died 22 APR 1730 in Québec, Québec, Canada. She married Unknown BEF 1721. She married Jean-Baptiste Montary , dit Jolicoeur 30 JAN 1729/30 in Québec, Québec, Canada, son of Jean Montary and Marie-Anne. He was born in Tarn et Garonne, France.

Children of Marie-Anne Couc and Unknown are: 64 i. Marie-Josèphe Germaneau was born 14 MAY 1721 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 30 AUG 1721 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
65 ii. Jean-Baptiste Germaneau was born 4 FEB 1722/23 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
66 iii. Nicolas René Germaneau was born 13 JAN 1725/26 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
67 iv. Marie-Jeanne Germaneau was born 28 MAR 1728 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
68 v. Jean-Baptiste Germaneau was born 16 APR 1730 in Québec, Québec, Canada, and died 5 AUG 1730 in St Augustin, Québec, Canada.




24. Marie-Madeleine Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1691 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 22 NOV 1756 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Charles Pavie , dit Lafleur 11 NOV 1714 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Charles Pany and Françoise Galteaux. He was born in Saintes, Charente Maritime, France. She married Jean-Baptiste Renaudet AFT 10 APR 1717 in Date of contract, son of David Renaudet and Marguerite Moreau. He was born in Bordeaux, Gironde, France, and died 24 DEC 1759 in Pointe Olivier (St Mathias), Québec, Canada.

Children of Marie-Madeleine Ménard and Jean-Baptiste Renaudet are:+ 69 i. Jean-Baptiste Renaudet was born 7 DEC 1719 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died 15 DEC 1811 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 70 ii. Marie-Louise Renaudet died 21 AUG 1796 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada.




25. Antoine Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 28 APR 1695 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 3 JUN 1764 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Huet , dit Dulude 7 JAN 1722/23 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, daughter of Joseph Huet , dit Dulude and Catherine Sicot. She was born 19 NOV 1698 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada.

Children of Antoine Ménard and Marie Huet , dit Dulude are: 71 i. Alexis Ménard. He married Marie Leblanc 20 OCT 1772 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
+ 72 ii. Antoine Ménard.
73 iii. Joseph Ménard. He married Marie-Amable Chaunière 12 JAN 1767 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
74 iv. Marie Ménard. She married Noël Lareau 22 JAN 1753 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
75 v. Maurice Ménard died 29 JAN 1796 in Pointe Olivier, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Barbe Quenneville 26 JUL 1762 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
76 vi. Pierre Ménard. He married Geneviève Sicard ABT 1775.




26. Louis Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1697 in Michilimackinac, Michigan. He married Marie Unknown. He married Marie-Anne Boudeau, daughter of Jean Boudeau and Élisabeth Pivin. She was born 18 NOV 1701 in Bourg-Royal, Québec, Canada. He married Françoise Robidou 7 FEB 1724/25 in Longueuil, Québec, Canada, daughter of Guillaume Robidou and Marie-Françoise Guérin.

Child of Louis Ménard and Marie-Anne Boudeau is:+ 77 i. Marie-Josèphe Ménard , dit Lafontaine was born BEF 7 FEB 1722/23 in Longueuil, Québec, Canada.


Child of Louis Ménard and Françoise Robidou is:+ 78 i. Marie-Angélique Josèphe (Françoise) Ménard.




29. Suzanne Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 21 JUL 1706 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada. She married Gabriel Bolon BEF 29 NOV 1726 in St Joseph, Michigan. He was born UNKNOWN.

Children of Suzanne Ménard and Gabriel Bolon are: 79 i. Suzanne Bolon was born 29 NOV 1726 in St Joseph, Michigan. She married Pierre Gauderre 5 MAY 1760 in Vincennes, Knox County, Indiana, son of François Godet and Agnes Richard.
+ 80 ii. Marie-Louise Bolon was born 22 APR 1728 in St Joseph, Michigan.
81 iii. Amable Bolon. He married Marie-Josèphe Gauderre 26 JAN 1773 in Fort Vincennes, Vincennes, Indiana.
82 iv. Marguerite Bolon. She married Antoine Marier 22 JUN 1767 in Ste Geneviève, Missouri.




31. François Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 6 FEB 1708/09 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Charlotte Jeanne 13 AUG 1736 in Laprairie, Québec, Canada, daughter of Jean Jeanne and Antoinette Marie. She was born 14 JUN 1714 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Children of François Ménard and Marie-Charlotte Jeanne are:+ 83 i. Louis François Ménard was born BEF 1737 in Québec, Canada.
+ 84 ii. Pierre Ménard was born BEF 1739 in Québec, Canada.
+ 85 iii. Marie-Anne Ménard was born BEF 1741 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 1 JAN 1785 in Detroit River.
86 iv. Michel Ménard was born 28 DEC 1742 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 2 JAN 1742/43 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
87 v. Pierre Ménard was born 27 MAY 1745 in Montréal, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 5 JUN 1745 in Longueuil, Québec, Canada.
88 vi. Marie-Charles Charlotte Ménard was born 27 MAY 1747 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died 17 JUL 1747 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
89 vii. Marie-Charlotte Ménard was born 28 NOV 1749 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died 30 DEC 1749 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada.
90 viii. Jean-Baptiste Ménard was born 26 DEC 1750 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died 11 OCT 1751 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada.
91 ix. Hyacinthe Ménard was born ABT 29 MAY 1752 in St Vincent de Paul, Québec, Canada.
92 x. Marie-Cécile Ménard was born 22 AUG 1755 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died 20 APR 1759 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada.




32. Marguerite Ménard (Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 1684 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, and died 25 MAY 1763 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Pierre Boileau 5 JUL 1706 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, son of Vincent (Edmé) Boileau and Geneviève Girard. He was born ABT 1676 in Poitiers, Vienne, France, and died 3 MAR 1729/30 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married François Frémont 23 MAY 1735 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of François Frémont and Anne Lacour. He was born in Tanis, Manche, France.

Children of Marguerite Ménard and Pierre Boileau are:+ 93 i. René Boileau.
+ 94 ii. Louise Boileau died 22 JAN 1761 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 95 iii. Madeleine Boileau died 4 JUL 1799 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 96 iv. Marguerite Boileau died 7 AUG 1760 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
97 v. Michel Boileau. He married Marie-Catherine Lavilette 3 JUL 1752 in Fort St Fréderic, New York.
98 vi. Pierre Boileau. He married Agathe Hus 23 OCT 1749 in Ile Dupas, Québec, Canada.






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Descendant Register, Generation No. 5

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40. Louis Javillon , dit Lafeuillade (Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 13 JUN 1715 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. He married Marie-Elizabeth Anenonta 1 JAN 1742/43 in Oka, Québec, daughter of Anenonta and Marie.

Children of Louis Javillon , dit Lafeuillade and Marie-Elizabeth Anenonta are: 99 i. Louis Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born ABT 25 JUN 1742 in Oka, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 25 JUN 1743 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
100 ii. Angélique Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born 14 JAN 1744/45 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
101 iii. Marie-Josèphe Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born BEF 13 DEC 1747 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 26 DEC 1747 in Oka, Québec, Canada.




45. Angélique Félicité Javillon , dit Lafeuillade (Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 17 DEC 1728 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada. She married Pierre Lamoureux BEF 31 DEC 1760 in Québec, Canada, son of François Lamoureux , dit Saint Germain and Marguerite Ménard. He was born ABT 14 JUN 1723 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Children of Angélique Félicité Javillon , dit Lafeuillade and Pierre Lamoureux are:+ 102 i. Félicité Saint Germain.
103 ii. Madeleine Saint Germain. She married Joseph Paille 19 MAR 1770 in Vincennes, Knox County, Indiana, son of Gilbert Paillé and Marie-Catherine Guillemot.




46. Joseph Javillon , dit Lafeuillade (Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 17 MAR 1730/31 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Anne Jeanne Lemelin 26 APR 1754 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Guillaume Lemelin and Marie-Louise Coutance.

Children of Joseph Javillon , dit Lafeuillade and Marie-Anne Jeanne Lemelin are:+ 104 i. Marie-Angélique Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born 7 JUL 1757 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
105 ii. Joseph Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born 26 JAN 1759 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
106 iii. Marie-Anne Javillon dit Lafeuillade was born 16 APR 1761 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.




47. Marie-Angélique Javillon (Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 15 AUG 1717 in Lachine, Québec, Canada. She married Michel Antoine Quesnel 9 APR 1736 in Ste Anne de Bellevue, Québec, Canada, son of Jean Quesnel and Marie-Madeleine Gourdon , dit Lachasse. He was born 25 OCT 1705 in Lachine, Québec, Canada. She married François Roy 27 FEB 1764 in Ste Anne, Bellevue, Québec, Canada, son of André Roy and Marie-Jeanne Peladeau.

Children of Marie-Angélique Javillon and Michel Antoine Quesnel are:+ 107 i. Marie-Angélique Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born 20 FEB 1735/36 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
+ 108 ii. Antoine Quesnel was born 20 OCT 1737 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
109 iii. Michel Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born 11 AUG 1739 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
+ 110 iv. Marie-Anne Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 28 OCT 1742 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
111 v. Louis Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 5 SEP 1745 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
112 vi. Bernardin Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 1 APR 1748 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
113 vii. Marie-Hippolyte Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 3 SEP 1750 in Oka, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 23 SEP 1750 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
114 viii. Marie-Hippolyte Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 10 SEP 1751 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
115 ix. Charles Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 29 MAY 1755 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
116 x. Jean-Baptiste Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 6 JUL 1758 in Oka, Québec, Canada. He married Angélique Levaque 19 FEB 1787 in Les Cèdres, Québec, Canada. He married Catherine Véronneau 20 FEB 1792 in Les Cèdres, Québec, Canada. He married Angélique Lecompte 30 OCT 1797 in Les Cèdres, Québec, Canada.
117 xi. Amable Quesnel. He married Marie-Rose Moreau 9 FEB 1784 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.




49. Jean-Baptiste Turpin (Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 14 DEC 1710 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. He married Marie-Louise LaMadeleine 26 FEB 1731/32 in Ste Anne, Bellevue, Québec, Canada, daughter of Étienne LaMadeleine and Jeanne Boursier. She was born 13 AUG 1717 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.

Children of Jean-Baptiste Turpin and Marie-Louise LaMadeleine are: 118 i. Étienne Basile Turpin. He married Unknown Legault 27 JUL 1767 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.
119 ii. Jean-Baptiste Turpin. He married Marie-Rose Ranger 2 FEB 1767 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Filion 22 FEB 1773 in Terrebonne, Québec, Canada.
+ 120 iii. Joseph Turpin.
+ 121 iv. Marie-Eugène Turpin.
+ 122 v. Marie-Josèphe Turpin.
+ 123 vi. Marie-Louise Turpin died 7 APR 1774 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.




69. Jean-Baptiste Renaudet (Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 7 DEC 1719 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died 15 DEC 1811 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Anne Huet , dit Dulude 25 FEB 1754 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, daughter of Jacques Huet , dit Dulude and Marie-Anne Gervaise. She was born 11 AUG 1723 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, and died 12 JUL 1782 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.

Children of Jean-Baptiste Renaudet and Marie-Anne Huet , dit Dulude are:+ 124 i. Joseph Renaudet was born 16 AUG 1762 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
125 ii. Jean-Baptiste Renaudet. He married Charlotte Meunier 19 JAN 1790 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, daughter of Jean-Baptiste Meunier and Marie-Louise Bissonnette.




70. Marie-Louise Renaudet (Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 21 AUG 1796 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada. She married Michel Brouillet 6 JUN 1735 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Bernard Brouillet and Marie Chartier. He was born ABT 27 DEC 1712 in Pointe aux Trembles, Québec, Canada, and died 14 DEC 1774 in St Jean François Régis (St Phlippe), Québec, Canada.

Children of Marie-Louise Renaudet and Michel Brouillet are:+ 126 i. Michel Brouillet was born 14 JUL 1740 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died 25 MAR 1824 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada.
+ 127 ii. Jean-Baptiste Brouillet was born 29 JUL 1753 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
+ 128 iii. Maurice Brouillet.




72. Antoine Ménard (Antoine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Thérèse Laroque 8 JAN 1753 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, daughter of Guillaume Laroque and Thérèse Boivin. She died 9 SEP 1797 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.

Child of Antoine Ménard and Thérèse Laroque is:+ 129 i. Marie-Anne Ménard died 7 SEP 1842 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




77. Marie-Josèphe Ménard , dit Lafontaine (Louis Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 7 FEB 1722/23 in Longueuil, Québec, Canada. She married Michel Vallée 10 APR 1747 in Beauport, Québec, Canada, son of Pierre Vallée and Marie-Madeleine Courault. He was born 11 MAY 1711 in Beauport, Québec, Canada, and died BEF 15 JUL 1765 in Québec, Canada. She married Richard Gresse 15 JUL 1765 in Notre-Dame, Québec, Québec, Canada.

Child of Marie-Josèphe Ménard , dit Lafontaine and Michel Vallée is:+ 130 i. François Vallée was born 9 JUN 1757 in Beauport, Québec, Canada.




78. Marie-Angélique Josèphe (Françoise) Ménard (Louis Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married Maurice Plouf 16 JAN 1746/47 in Sault aux Recollet, Québec, Canada, son of Pierre Plouf and Marie-Josèphe Eriche. He was born 14 DEC 1724 in Montréal, Québec.

Child of Marie-Angélique Josèphe (Françoise) Ménard and Maurice Plouf is:+ 131 i. Pierre François Plouf.




80. Marie-Louise Bolon (Suzanne Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 22 APR 1728 in St Joseph, Michigan. She married Joseph Guillory 5 SEP 1747 in Michilimackinac, Michigan, son of Simon Guillory and Marie De la Chapelle.

Child of Marie-Louise Bolon and Joseph Guillory is: 132 i. Louise Guillory. She married Michel Gosselin 14 OCT 1765 in Montréal, Québec, Canada.




83. Louis François Ménard (François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1737 in Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Angélique Amable Rose 20 OCT 1760 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, daughter of Charles Rose and Marie-Angélique Sicard.

Child of Louis François Ménard and Marie-Angélique Amable Rose is:+ 133 i. Marie-Anne Ménard.




84. Pierre Ménard (François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1739 in Québec, Canada. He married Geneviève Sicard 2 FEB 1762 in Rivière des Prairies, Québec, Canada, daughter of Joseph Sicard and Angélique Brazeau. She died ABT 7 DEC 1815 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.

Children of Pierre Ménard and Geneviève Sicard are: 134 i. Marie-Angélique Ménard was born 30 MAR 1762 in St Vincent de Paul, Québec, Canada, and died 31 MAR 1762 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada.
+ 135 ii. Joseph Simon Ménard was born 12 APR 1763 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 14 JUN 1816 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
+ 136 iii. Marie-Amable (Angélique) Ménard was born 23 FEB 1765 in St Vincent de Paul, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 20 JAN 1802 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
137 iv. Louis Ménard was born 23 JUN 1766 in St Vincent de Paul, Québec, Canada.
138 v. Jean-Marie Ménard was born BET 1767 AND 1770 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 7 SEP 1795 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. He married Marie-Charlotte Jacob 22 APR 1793 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Étienne Jacob and Madeleine Godet , dit Marentette. She was born 5 DEC 1775 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, Canada, and died ABT 21 FEB 1811 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
139 vi. Pierre Ménard was born ABT 28 JAN 1771 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada.
140 vii. François Marie Ménard was born 1 APR 1773 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, and died ABT 1 SEP 1805 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. He married Marie-Angélique Jacob 19 JAN 1791 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Étienne Jacob and Madeleine Godet , dit Marentette. She was born 16 FEB 1774 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, Canada, and died ABT 31 DEC 1812 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, Canada.
141 viii. Marie-Josèphe Ménard was born 7 AUG 1775 in South West Coast of Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, and died ABT 20 FEB 1776 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
142 ix. Antoine Ménard was born 31 MAY 1777 in South West Coast of Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, and died ABT 9 JUL 1777 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
143 x. Antoine Ménard was born 31 MAY 1779 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.




85. Marie-Anne Ménard (François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born BEF 1741 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 1 JAN 1785 in Detroit River. She married Jean Pierre Chule , dit Belair 8 JAN 1759 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, son of Étienne Chule and Catherine Martin. He was born 1733 in Avignon, France, and died ABT 10 NOV 1805 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.

Children of Marie-Anne Ménard and Jean Pierre Chule , dit Belair are: 144 i. Amable Chulle was born 1759 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 14 NOV 1821 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. He married Marie-Louise Lapointe 19 JAN 1796 in St Antoine, River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, daughter of Jean-Baptiste Audet , dit Lapointe and Marie-Catherine Goyeau. She was born 12 AUG 1780 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario.
145 ii. Marie-Charlotte Chulle , dit Belair was born JAN 1761 in Mascouche, Québec, Canada. She married Jacques Saint Aubin 19 MAR 1776 in Assumption, Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, son of Joseph Saint Aubin and Julie Cuillerier. He was born BET 1736 AND 1752.
146 iii. François Chulle was born 1762 in Québec, Canada, and died ABT 9 APR 1783 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario.
147 iv. Joseph Chulle was born 1764 in Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Jeanne Revau 8 JAN 1787 in Assumption, Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, daughter of Jean Louis (Revau) Renaud , dit Lajeunesse and Marie-Josèphe Dignan. She was born 13 JUN 1769 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, and died ABT 4 AUG 1803 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. He married Angélique Cadoret 10 FEB 1807 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of François Cadoret and Ursule Bigras. She was born 11 MAR 1786 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
148 v. Louis Chulle was born in Québec, Canada. He married Catherine Robidou 6 FEB 1794 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Étienne Robidou and Agathe Souchereau , dit Langoumois. She was born 15 MAY 1778 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, and died ABT 5 APR 1805 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. He married Marguerite Drouillard 23 JUL 1810 in St Antoine, River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, daughter of Jean-Baptiste Drouillard and Marie-Charlotte Drouin. She was born 1794, and died ABT 30 JAN 1824 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
149 vi. Marie-Josèphe Chulle was born 5 FEB 1773 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario. She married Gabriel Valade 12 FEB 1805 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Jean-Baptiste Valade and Josette Darpentigny. He was born in St Jean, Ile Perrot, Québec, Canada.
150 vii. Marie-Madeleine Chulle was born 20 NOV 1774 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario. She married Louis Grenon 28 SEP 1790 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Joseph Grenon and Catherine Félix. He died in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. She married Jean-Baptiste Lefebvre 17 FEB 1808 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Jean-Baptiste Lefebvre and Angélique Durand. He was born in Chateauguay, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 7 AUG 1813 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Pierre Marion , dit Lombard 4 JUN 1816 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Pierre Marion , dit Lombard and Madeleine Bergeron. He was born in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
151 viii. Marie-Thérèse Chulle was born 6 MAY 1777 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario. She married Augustin Hamel 31 OCT 1796 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Louis Hamel and Madeleine Charbonneau. He died ABT 21 JAN 1814 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
152 ix. Catherine Chulle , dit Belair was born 22 APR 1782 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario, and died ABT 29 JAN 1813 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Pierre Corneau 24 NOV 1801 in St Antoine, River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, son of Louis Corneau and Marie Daunay. He was born in Laprairie, Québec, Canada.




93. René Boileau (Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Marie-Anne Robert 9 SEP 1732 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, daughter of Prudent Robert and Marie-Madeleine Fafard , dit Delorme. She was born 17 FEB 1714/15 in Boucherville, Québec, Canada, and died 3 SEP 1759 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.

Child of René Boileau and Marie-Anne Robert is:+ 153 i. Pierre Jean Boileau.




94. Louise Boileau (Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 22 JAN 1761 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Laurent Perrault 29 JUL 1743 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Louis Perrault and Marie Jérôme. He was born in St Jean d'Angley, Charente Maritime, France.

Children of Louise Boileau and Laurent Perrault are: 154 i. Antoine Perrault. He married Marie Bissonnet 20 MAY 1779 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
155 ii. Marguerite Perrault. She married Joseph Amable Létourneau 6 NOV 1769 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Nicolas Létourneau and Geneviève Péloquin.
156 iii. Marie Perrault. She married Ambroise Poirier 1 FEB 1768 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Pierre Poirier and Charlotte Lagüe. He died 5 OCT 1798 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




95. Madeleine Boileau (Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 4 JUL 1799 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Jacques Sachet AFT 28 FEB 1744/45 in Date of contract, son of François Sachet and Élisabeth Maucar. He was born in Manche, France.

Children of Madeleine Boileau and Jacques Sachet are: 157 i. Élisabeth Sachet died 30 SEP 1798 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Nicolas Lagüe 11 FEB 1771 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
158 ii. Geneviève Victoire Sachet. She married François Lareau 5 JUN 1780 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




96. Marguerite Boileau (Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 7 AUG 1760 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Jean Gabouriau 7 JAN 1731/32 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Pierre Gabouriau and Marguerite Michel Boileau. He was born in Gironde, France.

Children of Marguerite Boileau and Jean Gabouriau are:+ 159 i. Geneviève Gabouriau.
160 ii. Jean Gabouriau. He married Françoise Lebeau 8 NOV 1762 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
161 iii. Louis Gabouriau. He married Marie-Agathe Davignon 22 JAN 1770 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
162 iv. Louise Gabouriau. She married Jacques Brisset 16 NOV 1761 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Joseph Brisset and Marie-Anne Delage.
+ 163 v. Marguerite Gabouriau.
164 vi. Pierre Gabouriau. He married Angélique Besset 13 FEB 1763 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Françoise Joubert 8 JAN 1781 in Pointe Olivier, Québec, Canada.






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Descendant Register, Generation No. 6

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102. Félicité Saint Germain (Angélique Félicité Javillon , dit Lafeuillade5, Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married René Godet , dit Marentette 13 FEB 1786 in Vincennes, Indiana, son of René Godet , dit Marentette and Catherine Campeau. He was born 4 APR 1762 in Vincennes, Indiana.

Children of Félicité Saint Germain and René Godet , dit Marentette are: 165 i. Jean Marie Godet was born ABT SEP 1788 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
166 ii. Marie Godet was born ABT OCT 1793 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.




104. Marie-Angélique Javillon dit Lafeuillade (Joseph Javillon , dit Lafeuillade5, Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 7 JUL 1757 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Michel Campeau, son of Michel Campeau and Marie-Josèphe Buteau. He was born 23 FEB 1742/43 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.

Children of Marie-Angélique Javillon dit Lafeuillade and Michel Campeau are:+ 167 i. Joseph Campeau was born BET 1771 AND 1780 in Vincennes, Indiana.
+ 168 ii. Michel Campeau was born 1776, and died ABT 5 FEB 1805 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario.
169 iii. Charles Campeau was born FEB 1781, and died ABT 14 JAN 1797 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario.




107. Marie-Angélique Fonblanche , dit Quesnel (Marie-Angélique Javillon5, Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 20 FEB 1735/36 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada. She married François de Sales Séguin , dit Laderoute 4 FEB 1760 in Ste. Anne de Bellevue, Québec, son of Louis Séguin , dit Laderoute and Marie-Anne Raizenne , dit Shoentakouani. He was born 14 SEP 1740 in Oka, Québec.

Children of Marie-Angélique Fonblanche , dit Quesnel and François de Sales Séguin , dit Laderoute are: 170 i. Marie-Angélique Séguin , dit Laderoute was born ABT 26 NOV 1760 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
171 ii. Eugénie Séguin , dit Laderoute was born ABT 23 NOV 1762 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
172 iii. Pierre François Séguin , dit Laderoute was born ABT 30 OCT 1764 in Oka, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Lortie 7 NOV 1796 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.
173 iv. Théodore Séguin. He married Marie Leduc 21 OCT 1799 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.




108. Antoine Quesnel (Marie-Angélique Javillon5, Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 20 OCT 1737 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada. He married Élisabeth Séguin 15 NOV 1762 in Oka, Québec, daughter of Jean-Baptiste Séguin , dit Laderoute and Marie-Catherine Raizenne , dit Shoentakouani. She died 25 JAN 1808 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.

Children of Antoine Quesnel and Élisabeth Séguin are:+ 174 i. Dominique Quesnel.
+ 175 ii. Antoine Fonblanche , dit Quesnel was born ABT 1 SEP 1764 in Oka, Québec, Canada.
176 iii. Jean-Baptiste Quesnel. He married Genevève Beyenert 4 NOV 1793 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.
177 iv. Josèphe Quesnel. She married Jean-Baptiste Lalonde 9 NOV 1789 in Vaudreuil, Québec, Canada.




110. Marie-Anne Fonblanche , dit Quesnel (Marie-Angélique Javillon5, Marie-Anne Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born ABT 28 OCT 1742 in Oka, Québec, Canada. She married Thomas Ranger , dit Laviolette 15 NOV 1762 in Oka, Québec, son of Thomas Ranger , dit Laviolette and Marie-Anne Tabault , le Petiteville.

Children of Marie-Anne Fonblanche , dit Quesnel and Thomas Ranger , dit Laviolette are: 178 i. Marie-Ursule Ranger , dit Laviolette was born 6 SEP 1763 in Bellevue, Québec, Canada.
179 ii. Marie-Josèphe Ranger , dit Laviolette was born ABT 27 FEB 1765 in Oka, Québec, Canada.




120. Joseph Turpin (Jean-Baptiste Turpin5, Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Anne Rouleau 11 FEB 1760 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada, daughter of Joseph Rouleau and Anne Lauzon.

Children of Joseph Turpin and Anne Rouleau are: 180 i. Joseph Turpin. He married Ursule Daoust 13 JAN 1783 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada.
181 ii. Marie-Josèphe Turpin. She married Jean-Baptiste Merlot 3 FEB 1777 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada.




121. Marie-Eugène Turpin (Jean-Baptiste Turpin5, Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married Sébastien Legault 17 JAN 1757 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada, son of Jean-Baptiste Legault , dit Deslauriers and Marie-Anne Cholet , dite Laviolette.

Children of Marie-Eugène Turpin and Sébastien Legault are: 182 i. Jean-Baptiste Legault. He married Marie-Louise Théorêt 14 OCT 1782 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada.
183 ii. Marie-Eugénie Legault. She married Michel Barbary 27 JAN 1784 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada.
184 iii. Sébastien Legault. He married Marie-Josèphe Brisebois 7 JAN 1782 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Berthelet 29 OCT 1787 in St Laurent, Québec, Canada. He married Catherine Theoret 2 JUL 1792 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada.




122. Marie-Josèphe Turpin (Jean-Baptiste Turpin5, Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married Joseph Éthier 25 JAN 1762 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada, son of Joseph Éthier and Marie-Catherine Lauzon.

Children of Marie-Josèphe Turpin and Joseph Éthier are: 185 i. Jean-Baptiste Éthier. He married Marie-Josèphe Robert 9 FEB 1795 in St Eustache, Québec, Canada.
186 ii. Joseph Éthier. He married Agathe Binet 3 OCT 1786 in St Eustache, Québec, Canada.




123. Marie-Louise Turpin (Jean-Baptiste Turpin5, Marguerite Fafard , dite Macouce4, Marguerite Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 7 APR 1774 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada. She married Louis Payment 22 FEB 1750/51 in Ste Geneviève, Pierrefonds, Québec, Canada, son of Pierre Payment and Marie-Françoise Poitevin.

Children of Marie-Louise Turpin and Louis Payment are: 187 i. Joseph Payment. He married Charlotte Prou 5 JUL 1784 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.
188 ii. Marie-Archange Payment. She married Joseph Barbary 20 APR 1784 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.
189 iii. Marie-Josèphe Payment. She married Pierre Biroleau 9 NOV 1772 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.
190 iv. Marie-Louise Payment. She married Jean Lauzon 9 NOV 1772 in Pointe Claire, Québec, Canada.




124. Joseph Renaudet (Jean-Baptiste Renaudet5, Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 16 AUG 1762 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. He married Thérèse Viau 26 OCT 1801 in St Joseph, Chambly, Québec, Canada, daughter of Laurent Viau , dit Lesperance and Marguerite Brouillet , dit Laviolette. She was born 13 JUN 1774 in Beloeil, Québec, Canada.

Child of Joseph Renaudet and Thérèse Viau is:+ 191 i. Marie Nauflette Renaudet was born BET 29 JAN AND 10 FEB 1809 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 25 AUG 1845 in Henryville, Québec, Canada.




126. Michel Brouillet (Marie-Louise Renaudet5, Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 14 JUL 1740 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died 25 MAR 1824 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Angélique Dagneau 26 OCT 1778 in St Jean François Régis (St Philippe), Québec, Canada, daughter of Antoine Dagneau and Marie-Thérèse Deneau. She died 11 SEP 1792 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada.

Child of Michel Brouillet and Marie-Angélique Dagneau is: 192 i. Marie-Louise Brouillet. She married Joseph Nolet 23 OCT 1797 in L'Acadie, Québec, Canada.




127. Jean-Baptiste Brouillet (Marie-Louise Renaudet5, Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 29 JUL 1753 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. He married Marie Bourassa 21 NOV 1774 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, daughter of Albert Bourassa and Marie-Jeanne Brosseau.

Child of Jean-Baptiste Brouillet and Marie Bourassa is:+ 193 i. Louise Brouillet.




128. Maurice Brouillet (Marie-Louise Renaudet5, Marie-Madeleine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Marie-Angélique Deniau 26 OCT 1778 in St Philippe, Laprairie, Québec, Canada, daughter of Antoine Deniau and Marie-Thérèse Deniau.

Child of Maurice Brouillet and Marie-Angélique Deniau is:+ 194 i. Bernard Brouillet.




129. Marie-Anne Ménard (Antoine Ménard5, Antoine Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) died 7 SEP 1842 in Chambly, Québec, Canada. She married Albert Provost 25 JAN 1785 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Gabriel Prévost and Marie-Anne Bourassa. He died 3 MAR 1796 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.

Child of Marie-Anne Ménard and Albert Provost is:+ 195 i. Étienne Provost was born 21 DEC 1785 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, and died 3 JUL 1850 in St Louis, Missouri.




130. François Vallée (Marie-Josèphe Ménard , dit Lafontaine5, Louis Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 9 JUN 1757 in Beauport, Québec, Canada. He married Marie-Anne Chevalier 11 JAN 1779 in Notre-Dame, Québec, Québec, Canada. She was born UNKNOWN in Québec, Canada.

Child of François Vallée and Marie-Anne Chevalier is:+ 196 i. Jean-Baptiste Vallée was born 19 MAR 1784 in Québec, Québec, Canada.




131. Pierre François Plouf (Marie-Angélique Josèphe (Françoise) Ménard5, Louis Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Marie-Agathe Choret 16 AUG 1790 in Sainte Rose, Ile-Jesus, Québec, Canada, daughter of Igance Choret and Marie-Agathe Clément , dite Larivière & Chambly. She died 12 AUG 1822 in St Martin, Québec, Canada.

Child of Pierre François Plouf and Marie-Agathe Choret is:+ 197 i. Louis Plouf.




133. Marie-Anne Ménard (Louis François Ménard5, François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married Jean Samuel Émond 19 MAY 1783 in Sault au Récollet, Québec, Canada, son of Joseph Émond and Catherine Hilair. He was born in France.

Child of Marie-Anne Ménard and Jean Samuel Émond is:+ 198 i. Hélène Aymond.




135. Joseph Simon Ménard (Pierre Ménard5, François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 12 APR 1763 in Sault au Recollet, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 14 JUN 1816 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. He married Cécile Robert 13 JAN 1791 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, daughter of Pierre Nicolas Robert and Madeleine Casse dit St. Aubin. She was born 6 JUN 1776 in Godfroy Farm, South West Coast of Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, and died ABT 14 APR 1815 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.

Child of Joseph Simon Ménard and Cécile Robert is:+ 199 i. Geneviève Ménard was born 19 JAN 1795 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, and died ABT 10 JAN 1821 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.




136. Marie-Amable (Angélique) Ménard (Pierre Ménard5, François Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1) was born 23 FEB 1765 in St Vincent de Paul, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 20 JAN 1802 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan. She married Pierre Demers , dit Dumay 19 NOV 1780 in Ste Anne's, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, son of Pierre Demers , dit Dumay and Marie-Françoise Hayot. He was born 13 MAY 1752 in Tilly, Québec, Canada, and died ABT 12 DEC 1806 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.

Children of Marie-Amable (Angélique) Ménard and Pierre Demers , dit Dumay are: 200 i. Pierre Dumay was born 5 DEC 1780 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.
201 ii. Marie-Angélique Dumay was born 21 APR 1782 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan. She married Paschal Bissonnet 13 OCT 1806 in St Antoine, River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, son of Étienne Bissonnet and Catherine Vitry , dit St Germain. He was born 1766 in Sandwich/Windsor, Essex County, Ontario.
202 iii. Marie-Louise Dumay was born BET 1783 AND 1788 in Michigan. She married Joseph Cavalier , dit Rangeard 22 NOV 1803 in St Antoine, River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, son of Jean-Baptiste Cavalier dit Rangeard and Madeleine Parent.
+ 203 iv. Archange Dumay was born ABT AUG 1789 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
204 v. Marie-Charlotte Dumay was born 22 SEP 1790 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
205 vi. Pierre Dumay was born ABT JAN 1793 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, and died ABT 26 SEP 1812 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
206 vii. Chryststom Dumay was born 4 FEB 1795 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, and died ABT 7 MAR 1796 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
+ 207 viii. Thomas Dumay was born 23 JAN 1797 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
208 ix. Marie Dumay was born 29 OCT 1798 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.
209 x. Charles Louis Dumay was born 7 JAN 1802 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan, and died ABT 23 JUN 1802 in River Raisin (Monroe), Monroe County, Michigan.




153. Pierre Jean Boileau (René Boileau5, Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). He married Marie-Josèphe Bourdon BEF 8 MAY 1762, daughter of Jean-Baptiste Bourdon and Marie-Charlotte Charles.

Child of Pierre Jean Boileau and Marie-Josèphe Bourdon is:+ 210 i. Clément Boileau.




159. Geneviève Gabouriau (Marguerite Boileau5, Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married François Besset 7 JAN 1754 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of François Besset and Marie-Claude Dubois. She married Alexandre Vigeant 24 JAN 1763 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Jean Vigeant and Marie-Anne Perrier.

Children of Geneviève Gabouriau and François Besset are: 211 i. Antoine Besset. He married Élisabeth Lague 17 FEB 1789 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
212 ii. François Besset. He married Louise Racine 7 JAN 1789 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
213 iii. Laurent Besset. He married Marie-Archange Tétreault 23 JUL 1792 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
214 iv. Marguerite Besset died 26 JUN 1784 in St Charles sur Richelieu, Québec, Canada. She married Jean-Baptiste Senez 2 FEB 1778 in St Charles sur Richelieu, Québec, Canada.


Children of Geneviève Gabouriau and Alexandre Vigeant are: 215 i. Alexandre Vigeant. He married Marie-Élisabeth Racine 19 OCT 1790 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
216 ii. Josèphe Vigeant. She married Joseph Provost 26 SEP 1796 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
217 iii. Marie-Angélique Vigeant. She married Étienne Raphaël Camasse 5 FEB 1793 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.




163. Marguerite Gabouriau (Marguerite Boileau5, Marguerite Ménard4, Madeleine Couc3, Pierre Couc2, Nicolas Couc1). She married Nicolas Magny 21 SEP 1767 in Chambly, Québec, Canada, son of Nicolas Magny and Cécile Cloutier.

Children of Marguerite Gabouriau and Nicolas Magny are: 218 i. Jean Magny. He married Marie-Françoise Benoît 28 OCT 1793 in Chambly, Québec, Canada.
219 ii. Nicolas Magny. He married Marie-Louise Dejadon 21 JAN 1799 in Pointe Olivier, Québec, Canada.





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jdelisle
Membre
 
Messages: 205
Inscrit le: 2007-05-21, 19:05

Messagepar Pierre » 2009-02-13, 01:23

Mme Sommerville,

Quote :

Moi : Il fait également la traite avec les Sauvages entre T-Rivières et les Grands Lacs (voir le jugement qui pèse contre lui).

Vous : Here is the document Pierre Montour seems to mean. First, my transcription of the document, that I did from a photocopy I ordered from the archives about eight years ago:

Baillage de Trois-Rivières, Reg. 1, 28 juin 1660
Sieur peré contre pierre couc dict lafleur de coignac pour la somme de 450 livres Le dict lafleur disant navoir dequoy payer et davoir presté les dicts marchandises aux sauvages Avons ordonne que le di[ct] la fleur payera ledict Somme a l arriver de la premiere flotille sauvauges qui descendra aux trois rivieres

TL3,S11, p. 65

Vous : I have found no evidence that Pierre Couc traveled to trade in the Grands Lacs, and I possess copies of just about every known record concerning him and his family.

Moi :

Effectivement, je faisais référence à ce jugement. J'avais lu votre traduction vers 2001 et la version BNQ (Pistard) vers 2006.

J'en conclus qu'il faisait la traite avec des Sauvages à Trois-Rivières, qu'il leur a prêté du matériel de traite, qu'ils sont montés aux Grands Lacs pour faire les échanges et qu'il attend leur retour pour payer son créancier.

J'ai résumé le tout en écrivant qu'il faisait la traite avec des Sauvages et les Grands Lacs. Ce qui ne démontre ansolument pas qu'il s'est rendu lui-même aux Grands Lacs. Je ne tentais pas de démontrer le contraire. Par contre, ses enfants y vont.

Cela ne veut pas dire non plus que d'autres n'y allaient pas vers 1660, malgré les dangers que cela comportait, comme le démontre les voyages de Radisson et de Desgroseillers à cette époque.

Cela dit, Madame Sommerville, vos travaux généalogiques en général et sur les Couc dit La Fleur dit Montour en particulier sont remarquables.

Quant à leurs descendants, s'ils s'avèrent être tous ceux cités par le père Jacques, leurs données forment des indices forts pour identifier les premiers membres d'une communauté métisse naissante à l'oeuvre sur un immense territoire, unis par le sang et la traite des fourrures.
Pierre
Membre
 
Messages: 2374
Inscrit le: 2005-03-23, 10:09

Messagepar Pierre » 2009-02-13, 08:51

Vues ensembles, les données de Diane Wolford Sheppard reprises par Jacques Delisle sur les descendants de Couc dit Lafleur et Mite8ameg8k8e sont fascinantes.

Regardez le déploiement de leurs descendans aux 17ème et 18ème siècle. On les retrouve ou se trouvent les Sauvages et les troupes françaises : Sorel, Oka, Chambly, les forts de l'ouest.

De plus, ils sont liés à plusieurs personnes sauvages ou de descendants de couple d'origine interethnique ou dont l'origine est incertaine. Comprenez leurs liens, comprenez leur tissu social et vous aurez compris la face cachée de l'ethnogénèse de leur communauté métisse historique.
Pierre
Membre
 
Messages: 2374
Inscrit le: 2005-03-23, 10:09

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-13, 09:22

Thank you for your appreciation of our work.

The web site cited by Jacques Delisle is that of the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan, which publishes Michigan's Habitant Heritage. The document indicated is in pdf format and must be approached from

http://fchsm.habitant.org/

under Journal.

On the main page, you can see the plaque with the names of those who accompanied Antoine Laumet dit de Lamothe Cadillac in the first convoy to found Fort Pontchartrain (Detroit, Michigan) in 1701. Each name listed is found in hiring contracts or in the colonial correspondence.

The data base cited is that of Diane Wolford Sheppard, my colleague and fellow member of the FCHSM. Along with the editor, Gail Moreau-Desharnais, and others, we are committed to working from original documents, whenever possible, and we share our research with each other.

We know that some questions about the past will never be answered because of the lack of documentation. We believe that speculation must therefore be identified as such and that guesses or prejudices that are presented as fact must be challenged.

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
Suzanne
Membre
 
Messages: 16
Inscrit le: 2009-02-11, 08:11

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-13, 12:49

I have just read Diane Wolford Sheppard's data base cited by Jacques Delisle. These details were entered some time ago.

Although Diane has recently read through my 13-part article on the Couc/Montour family, she has not yet updated her data base. There are several changes that need to be made. I will advise her.

Also, computer genealogy programs have blanks to fill in and do not easily allow for nuances or qualifications. Thus, in several cases, the program will indicate there was a marriage when, in fact, no such marriage existed.

At a later time, I will provide you with the major corrections I have identified in my research on the family.

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
Suzanne
Membre
 
Messages: 16
Inscrit le: 2009-02-11, 08:11

Messagepar Pierre » 2009-02-13, 13:29

D'avance, merci beaucoup, Mme Sommerville, ces données sont extrêmements pertinentes et se doivent d'être vérifiées avec minutie.

Votre rigueur sera très appréciée.

Vous serez en quelque sorte notre Darwin ;-)
Pierre
Membre
 
Messages: 2374
Inscrit le: 2005-03-23, 10:09

PIERRE COUC, INTERPRÈTE EN IROQUOISIE

Messagepar jdelisle » 2009-02-13, 22:58



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ID: I016002
Name: Pierre Couc
Sex: M
Birth: ABT 1627 in Cognac, Saintes, Saintonge (Charente), France 1
Death: BET 5 APR AND 18 MAY 1690 in St François du Sud, Québec, Canada 1
Event: Miscellaneous 1653 He was in Iroquoisie 2
Occupation: 1661 Interpretor 2
Reference Number: 17887

Father: Nicolas Couc b: in France
Mother: Elisabeth Templair b: in France

Marriage 1 Marie Miteouamigoukoue , Algonquin Indian b: ABT 1632 in Québec, Canada
Married: 16 APR 1657 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada 1
Children
Jeanne Couc b: BEF 14 JUL 1657 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada
Louis Couc , dit Montour b: ABT 17 NOV 1659 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada
Marie-Angélique Couc b: BEF 1662 in Québec, Canada
Marguerite Couc b: 1 JUN 1664 in Trois-Rivières, Québec, Canada
Élisabeth Couc b: BEF 1667 in Québec, Canada
Madeleine Couc b: ABT 1669 in Québec, Canada
Jean Couc b: ABT 1673 in Québec, Canada

Sources:
Title: Dictionnaire genealogique de familles du Québec des origines a 1730
Author: René Jetté
Publication: Les Presses de l'Universite de Montréal, Montréal, Québec, 1983
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Note: Personal Library
Media: Book
Page: 278
Title: Catalogue des Immigrants
Author: Marcel Trudel
Publication: Hurtubise HMH, Montréal, Québec, 1983
Page: 239



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ID: I095553
Name: Louis Couc , dit Montour
Sex: M
Birth: ABT 17 NOV 1659 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada 1
Death: APR 1709 in Pays d'en Haut 1
Event: Engagé Ouest 8 AUG 1688 Boisguillot hired him for a voyage to Baie du Puans (Green Bay, Wisconsin) 2
Event: Engageur Ouest 19 AUG 1692 Louis Couc hired Pierre Mouflet for a voyage to the 8ta8ois (Ottawa Indians) 3

Father: Pierre Couc b: ABT 1627 in Cognac, Saintes, Saintonge (Charente), France
Mother: Marie Miteouamigoukoue , Algonquin Indian b: ABT 1632 in Québec, Canada

Marriage 1 Unknown
Married: BEF 1681 4
Children
François Couc b: 4 JUN 1681 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada

Marriage 2 Unknown Scokie Indian
Married: BEF 1683 4
Children
Jacques Couc b: JUL 1683 in Nicolet, Québec, Canada

Marriage 3 Jeanne Quigetigoucoue , Algonquin Indian b: ABT 1656
Married: 7 JAN 1687/88 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada 1
Children
Joseph Couc , dit Montour b: ABT NOV 1687 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada
Marie-Madeleine Couc b: BET 1687 AND 1688 in unknown
Marie-Anne Couc b: UNKNOWN

Sources:
Title: Programme de recherche en démographie historique
Author: University of Montréal
Publication: Montréal, Québec via internet subscription (names standardized per Jetté)
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Media: Internet
Page: #1045
Title: Répertoire des Engagements Pour L'Ouest Conservés Dans Les Archives Judiciares De Montréal (1670-1778)
Author: E.Z. Massicotte
Publication: Rapport d'Archiviste de la Province de Québec, pour 1929-1930, Rédempti Paradis, 1930
Page: 198
Title: Répertoire des Engagements Pour L'Ouest Conservés Dans Les Archives Judiciares De Montréal (1670-1778)
Author: E.Z. Massicotte
Publication: Rapport d'Archiviste de la Province de Québec, pour 1929-1930, Rédempti Paradis, 1930
Page: 200
Title: Dictionnaire genealogique de familles du Québec des origines a 1730
Author: René Jetté
Publication: Les Presses de l'Universite de Montréal, Montréal, Québec, 1983
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Note: Personal Library
Media: Book
Page: 278



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A work in progress - Includes all of the French Canadians who settled in Detroit, Michigan and Sandwich/Windsor, Ontario prior to 1783, Scottish Peers and the descents of French Canadian & American Immigrants from Medieval Noble & Royal Families

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Corrections (with source citations) are welcome via e-mail - please do not use post-ems - see individual page for sources, additional facts & notes. Biographical notes © Diane Wolford Sheppard 1997-2008 or the sources cited

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ID: I095533
Name: Élisabeth Couc
Sex: F
Birth: BEF 1667 in Québec, Canada 1
Death: 1752 1
Event: Miscellaneous 1704 Élisabeth was in Detroit by 1704 2
Note:
Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online


COUC, ELIZABETH? (La Chenette, Techenet; Montour), daughter of Pierre Couc, dit Lafleur, and Marie Mite¢ameg¢k¢e. The given name of this woman is not definitely known. If she was Elizabeth, as evidence suggests, she was born at Trois-Rivières in 1667. It has been claimed that she was married once in the church, but no record has been found and her husband’s name is not known. Her several later marriages were probably according to Indian custom and cannot be dated exactly. She died about 1750 probably near Harris’s Ferry (Harrisburg, Pa.).

Information on Elizabeth Couc’s early life is vague and contradictory. She was captured by an Iroquois war party about 1695, just where is uncertain. According to one account she was only a child of ten and was seized by anti-French raiders; according to another she was already married and living among the English, and her captors were pro-French Iroquois. Ransomed by her brother-in-law Maurice Ménard, she accompanied him to Michilimackinac where he was an interpreter. While there, she apparently ran afoul of Cadillac [Laumet*], the commandant, who later reported that he had “sent her under guard to the Chevalier de [Callière*] who sent her down to Québec to send her to France,” but that she had been rescued by Outoutagan* who brought her back to Michilimackinac and married her.

Although it is not necessary to believe Cadillac’s assertion that she had been “kept by more than a hundred men,” her attitude to marriage was apparently somewhat casual. By 1704 she was living at Detroit and was known as Mme La Chenette or Mme Techenet. When in late 1706 Étienne de Véniard* de Bourgmond, a former acting commandant of Detroit, deserted the post to live in the woods, she went with him, and it was said that she had “for a long time led a scandalous life with the said Sieur de Bourgmont.”

Her brother Louis Couc Montour left Detroit at about the same time and went to New York, where the governor engaged him to conduct the western Indians to Albany for trade, and she joined him in the English colony. After his death in 1709, Mme Montour (as she now called herself) was employed as an interpreter by the governor and became the wife of an Oneida chief, Carundawana (Robert Hunter), who was killed in 1729 when with an Indian war party in South Carolina.

In 1727 she and her husband attended an Indian conference in Philadelphia; and so far as is known she spent the remainder of her life in Pennsylvania, where she performed a few official services and was the centre of some attention. She was regarded as a Frenchwoman and was reported to have lived among the Miamis and as “having a Sister married to one of that Nation.” Count von Zinzendorf, who met her in 1742, described her as an Indianized Frenchwoman from Québec. The story of her early life as reported by Witham Marshe, who met her at Lancaster in 1744, is a mixture of fact and fiction: he understood that her father was a governor of Canada.

Mme Montour lived near the present site of Williamsport, Pa., about 1737–42 and at that of Sunbury about 1745. In the following year her son Andrew moved to the Ohio, travelling from Logstown (Ambridge, Pa.) to Venango (Franklin, Pa.) “in the Month of March, when his Mother who was blind rode on Horseback and he led the Horse on Foot all the Way.” She was reported living with him near Harris’s Ferry in October 1748, but seems to have died no great while afterward.

Andrew, also known as Henry, was employed in Indian affairs by Pennsylvania and Virginia; another son, Louis, is mentioned; her “daughters” included French Margaret, actually a niece, and even the latter’s daughter Catherine, both of whom for a time made their home with her. A younger brother, Jean, traded at Albany in 1725 and is mentioned in Pennsylvania in 1728–34.

William A. Hunter

Moravian Church Archives (Bethlehem, Pa.), Indian missions, box 121, Shamokin. New York State Archives (Albany), Colonial manuscripts, 57, f.169a; 62, ff.1, 3. PAC, RG 10, A3, 1819, ff.55, 137a–38, 296–96a. “Cadillac papers,” Michigan Pioneer Coll., XXXIII (1903), 237–38, 432–41; XXXIV (1904), 234–36. [Cadwallader Colden], The letters and papers of Cadwallader Colden . . . (9v., N.Y. Hist. Soc. Coll., L–LVI (1917–23), LXVII–LXVIII (1934–35), New York, 1918–37), IX, 370–74; “Letters on Smith’s history of New York,” N.Y. Hist. Soc. Coll., I (1868), 200. Information respecting the history, condition and prospects of the Indian tribes of the United States . . . , ed. H. R. Schoolcraft (6v., Philadelphia, Pa., 1851–57), IV, 326–27. NYCD (O’Callaghan and Fernow), V, 64–65, 268, 273; IX, 830, 900, 902. Pennsylvania, Colonial records, III-IV. Pennsylvania archives, 1st ser., I; 2nd ser., VII, 146. “Witham Marshe’s journal of the treaty held with the Six Nations . . . June 1744,” Mass. Hist. Soc. Coll., 1st ser., VII (1800), 189–91. Peter Wraxall, An abridgement of the Indian affairs contained in four folio volumes, transacted in the colony of New York, from the year 1678 to the year 1751, ed. C. H. McIlwain (Harvard historical studies, XXI, Cambridge, Mass., 1915), 50, 64–68. Benjamin Sulte, “The Montour family,” Notes and queries, historical, biographical and genealogical, relating chiefly to interior Pennsylvania (4th ser., 2v., Harrisburg, 1893–95), II, 19–21. Tanguay, Dictionnaire, I, 142, 440; III, 160.


Father: Pierre Couc b: ABT 1627 in Cognac, Saintes, Saintonge (Charente), France
Mother: Marie Miteouamigoukoue , Algonquin Indian b: ABT 1632 in Québec, Canada

Marriage 1 Outoutagan (Jean LeBlanc) Ottawa Chief
Married: 3

Marriage 2 Joachim Germaneau b: in St Maxime, Confolens, Limoges, Limousin (Charente), France
Married: 30 APR 1684 in Sorel, Québec, Canada 4
Children
Michel Germaneau b: BEF 1695 in Québec, Canada

Marriage 3 Unknown Lamothe
Married: ABT 1695 5
Children
Marie-Anne Couc b: ABT 1695 in unknown

Marriage 4 Pierre Téchenay b: ABT 1671 in Québec, Canada
Married: BEF 1706

Marriage 5 Carondowana Oneida Sachem
Married: ABT 1710 in New York

Sources:
Title: Programme de recherche en démographie historique
Author: University of Montréal
Publication: Montréal, Québec via internet subscription (names standardized per Jetté)
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Media: Internet
Page: #1045
Title: Michigan's Habitant Heritage
Publication: Genealogy Publication of the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Media: Book
Page: July, 1998, pp. 126-128, Gail Moreau, "Continuation of Those Who Came to Detroit 1701-1710"
Title: Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online
Author: University of Montréal & Laval University
Publication: http://www.biographi.ca/EN/index.html
Repository:
Media: Electronic
Title: Programme de recherche en démographie historique
Author: University of Montréal
Publication: Montréal, Québec via internet subscription (names standardized per Jetté)
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Media: Internet
Page: #5431
Title: Dictionnaire genealogique de familles du Québec des origines a 1730
Author: René Jetté
Publication: Les Presses de l'Universite de Montréal, Montréal, Québec, 1983
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Note: Personal Library
Media: Book
Page: 490 - May have been Antoine (Cadillac).



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A work in progress - Includes all of the French Canadians who settled in Detroit, Michigan and Sandwich/Windsor, Ontario prior to 1783, Scottish Peers and the descents of French Canadian & American Immigrants from Medieval Noble & Royal Families

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Diane's Database
Entries: 144381 Updated: 2009-02-13 12:16:04 UTC (Fri) Contact: Diane Wolford Sheppard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corrections (with source citations) are welcome via e-mail - please do not use post-ems - see individual page for sources, additional facts & notes. Biographical notes © Diane Wolford Sheppard 1997-2008 or the sources cited

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ID: I095559
Name: Joseph Couc , dit Montour
Sex: M
Birth: ABT NOV 1687 in St François du Lac, Québec, Canada 1

Father: Louis Couc , dit Montour b: ABT 17 NOV 1659 in Trois Rivières, Québec, Canada
Mother: Jeanne Quigetigoucoue , Algonquin Indian b: ABT 1656

Marriage 1 Elizabeth Monthio , Native American
Married: BEF 1711 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan 1
Children
Madeleine Couc , dite Montour b: ABT 30 OCT 1711 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan
Joseph Couc b: JAN 1713/14 in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan

Sources:
Title: Dictionnaire genealogique de familles du Québec des origines a 1730
Author: René Jetté
Publication: Les Presses de l'Universite de Montréal, Montréal, Québec, 1983
Note: Excellent
Repository:
Note: Personal Library
Media: Book
Page: 278



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A work in progress - Includes all of the French Canadians who settled in Detroit, Michigan and Sandwich/Windsor, Ontario prior to 1783, Scottish Peers and the descents of French Canadian & American Immigrants from Medieval Noble & Royal Families

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jdelisle
Membre
 
Messages: 205
Inscrit le: 2007-05-21, 19:05

Re: Jeanne Onaus

Messagepar jdelisle » 2009-02-14, 02:33

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville a écrit:My footnotes for the previous posting were not recorded. Here they are:

See Rootsweb archives under subject “Jeanne Aunois (Nounau)”, July 8, 9, 10, 2002.

PRDH #87278 Trois-Rivières 1651-08-27 Birth: 1651-08-24. The word amérindienne itself did not exist until relatively recently. [Author’s note: I should also add that PRDH automatically assumes the father and mother are present and alive if information in the record does not indicate otherwise. This assumption can be misleading. The father of Perrine is actually said to be deceased, so he could not have been present, another misreading ]

I have read that someone believes this Marie Ki-ta-ran-gou-koué is really Marie Mité-oua-me-gou-koué because the last particles, “gou” and “koué” (or “kway”) are the same, and that this Perrine could even be Pierre’s “daughter“. I did not record the source. According to the linguist J. A. (Jean André) Cuoq, Algonquin “k8é” or “koué” means woman, having the same original meaning as the variant “squaw”, today considered a pejorative word because of the negative connotations later given to the word. See Cuoq’s dictionaries and other works on Iroquois and Algonquin languages at Early Canadiana < http://www.canadiana.org/ >

Also spelled Auneau and other variations. See PRDH on-line.

“Connections to the Early Inhabitants of Detroit,” MHH, Vol. 21 #2, April 2000, p. 90.

found at >http://www.francogene.com/migrants/0005.html< Emphasis added.
Message text written by INTERNET:QUEBEC-RESEARCH-L@rootsweb.com
>X-Message: #18 Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:35:39 -0400<
Message sent 7/09/2002 7:00 AM (EDT)
Message for <110435.1567@compuserve.com>; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:51:11 -0400


Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é



Jeanne Aunos, Amérindienne or Native American ( sauvage) according to Baptisms of Immaculée Conception of Trois-Rivières.

DANS LA LISTE DES BAPTÊMES DE L'ÉGLISE CATHOLIQUE

L'IMMACULÉE-CONCEPTION-DES-TROIS-RIVIÈRES, PAGE B 601:

Jeanne Onaus est clairement indiquée Amérindienne. Elle est citée dans le registre de BAPTÊME de Perrine:


B: 1651-08-27, N: 1651-08-24


01 PERRINE o: AMERINDIEN (791) C F

02 MARIE / KITARANGOUKOUE o: AMERINDIEN (791) MERE F

03 o: AMERINDIEN (701) PERE M

04 PIERRE /KOUC / LAFLEURDECOGNAC M

05 JEANNE / ONAUS o: AMERINDIEN (791) M F

06 PIERRE / LEFEBVRE M M

07 JOSEPH I / DUPERON p:02 C M




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: LE REGISTRE DE BAPTÊME A PRIORITÉ SUR LE PRDH. DE PLUS, LE REGISTRE DE BAPTÊME EST SOUS-SIGNÉ PAR LE PÈRE JÉSUITE JOSEPH DUPERON.


VOICI ÉGALEMENT UNE LISTE DE BAPTÊMES ENTIÈREMENT AMÉRINDIENS DE LA MISSION SAUVAGE DE L'IMMACULÉE-CONCEPTION-DE-TROIS-RIVIÈRES DONT FIGURENT LES 3 BAPTÊMES DE JEANNE NOUNAU AINSI QU'UNE DATE DE SÉPULTURE:


NOUNAU

Jeanne

B 1647-01-12

B 1648-12-04

B 1651- 05-15


S 1697- 02- 11



OBSERVATIONS: DANS LA LISTE DE CETTE MISSION SAUVAGE, AUCUNE CONNOTATION AMÉRINDIENNE N'EST DONNÉE MÊME POUR DES NOMS AMÉRINDIENS COMME: MOUNSOKOUE, MOURABIKOUE, NEOYA, NIAKOUI, etc.

DONC, ON NE PEUT PAS TOUJOURS IDENTIFIER UN OU UNE AMÉRINDIENNE, COMME JEANNE ET LES AUTRES AMÉRINDIENS À PARTIR DE LA CONNOTATION AMÉRINDIENNE CAR ELLE EST SOUVENT ABSENTE.

DE PLUS, MÊME SI LES BMS SEMBLENT UNE DES SOURCES LES PLUS FIABLES, IL ARRIVE QU'UN ENFANT ADOPTÉ AIT MINIMALEMENT 2 CERTIFICATS DE BAPTÊME DANS DES RÉGIONS DIFFÉRENTES, DONT L'UN AVEC LES PARENTS NATURELS ET L'AUTRE AVEC LES PARENTS D'ADOPTION, ENFIN UN VRAI CASSE-TÊTE.



NOTE: ON PRÉTEND QUE JEANNE NOUNAU EST NÉE VERS 1621. DONC LORS DE SON 1ER BAPTÊME, ELLE EST ÂGÉE D'ENVIRON 26 ANS; SON 2E BAPTÊME D'ENVIRON 27 ANS ET SON 3E BAPTÊME DE 30 ANS.

AU DÉBUT DE LA COLONIE, LES BAPTÊMES SE DONNENT À L'ÂGE ADULTE CHEZ LES AMÉRINDIENS CONVERTIS PUIS ON BAPTISE LEURS ENFANTS.

CHEZ LES EUROPÉENS DONT LES FRANÇAIS, LE BAPTÊME EST TOUJOURS DONNÉ À LA NAISSANCE OU QUELQUES JOURS APRÈS SEULEMENT CAR ON CRAINT QUE LE NOUVEAU NÉ N'AILLE DANS LES LIMBES. DE FAIT, ON BAPTISAIT TRÈS TÔT À CAUSE DE LA TRÈS GRANDE MORTALITÉ INFANTILE À L'ÉPOQUE.

DE PLUS JEANNE A PLUSIEURS NOMS DE FAMILLE DIFFÉRENTS : ONAUS, AUNOIS, AUNEAU, AUBOIS. HAMEAU...


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THE ST-GELAIS FAMILIES OF NORTH AMERICA
Entries: 253544 Updated: 2009-02-04 03:28:38 UTC (Wed) Contact: Bob St. Gelais

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ID: I19031
Name: Jeanne AUBOIS OR AUNOIS
Given Name: Jeanne
Surname: Aubois or Aunois
Name: Jeanne \Auneau \Hameau \Aubois\Aunois
Given Name: Jeanne \Auneau \Hameau \Aubois\Aunois
Sex: F
_UID: DF92537CE13E1E469E4CBB645D17A32104A6
Change Date: 31 Oct 2003

Marriage 1 Pierre LEFEBVRE b: ABT 1616
Married: ABT 1646
Children
Michel LEFEBVRE b: ABT 1654
Elisabeth LEFEBVRE-DESCOTEAUX b: 14 MAY 1651
Ange LEFEBVRE-DESCOTEAUX b: SEP 1658
Catherine LEFEBVRE b: AFT 1646
Jacques LEFEBVRE-DESCOTEAUX
Ignace LEFEBVRE-BELISLE b: 3 APR 1656



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C'EST À S'Y MÉPRENDRE. POUVONS-NOUS PARLER DE PRÉCISIONS OU DE FIABILITÉ, CE QUI NE SEMBLAIT PAS UNE PRÉOCCUPATION À L'ÉPOQUE DE LA COLONIE, LA PLUPART DES GENS ÉTANT ILLETTRÉS OU ANALPHABÈTES SAUF LES MEMBRES DU CLERGÉ ET QUELQUES NOTABLES.

voici un document comme référence culturelle en NOUVELLE- FRANCE:


LE BAPTÊME ET LES PRÉNOMS EN NOUVELLE- FRANCE


L'accouchement en Nouvelle-France est une expérience difficile qui se solde souvent par le décès du nouveau-né. Bien que les risques de mortalité soient moins élevés qu'en France, il reste que un enfant sur quatre décède avant l'âge de un an et que deux enfants sur cinq n'atteignent pas l'âge de quinze ans. L'Église insiste donc pour que les nouveaux-nés se fassent baptiser le plus rapidement possible.

L'évêque de Québec somme les parents, sous peine d'excommunication, de conduire leur enfant à l'église pour recevoir le baptême dans les deux ou trois jours qui suivent la naissance, peu importe la saison. Le salut de ces petites âmes doit primer tout. La majorité des habitants suivent la consigne et 80% des baptêmes ont lieu à l'église, le premier ou le deuxième jour de la naissance.

Si, pour une raison ou une autre, on craint que le petit ne succombe dès les premiers instants, la sage-femme est autorisée à le baptiser, mais à condition qu'il n'y ait pas d'homme pour l'administrer car il est toujours préféré à la femme pour donner ce sacrement.

Le prénom est donné lors du baptême par les parents et plus rarement par le parrain et la marraine. On choisit la plupart du temps le prénom du père, de la mère ou du grand-père comme pour perpétuer l'existence de ses ancêtres. D'ailleurs, il n'est pas rare que des frères ou des soeurs aient le même prénom. Ainsi s'assure-t-on le plus possible de sa pérennité.

En Nouvelle-France, les prénoms suivent certaines exigences. Mgr de Saint-Vallier est très clair pas de surnoms comme Jeannot pour Jean, Nanon pour Anne ou Manon pour Marie-Anne ; pas non plus de prénoms païens comme Diane ou Apollon. Il faut s'inspirer de la Sainte Famille pour offrir au jeune un exemple de vie. Même des noms comme Charlotte, Ange ou Angélique sont réprouvés.

On privilégie les saints : Pierre, Jean, Jacques pour les garçons et Marie, Madeleine, Élisabeth, Marguerite, Anne pour les filles. Les prénoms féminins préférés sont en général doubles Marie-Madeleine et Marie-Anne tandis chez les garçons dominent ceux de Joseph et Jean-Baptiste. Il y a toutefois une différence entre les nobles et les paysans. Les gens de l'élite optent souvent pour Louis, en l'honneur du roi Louis XIV et pour Marie-Anne. Les paysans, quant à eux, préfèrent Jean-Baptiste et Marie-Joseph, même si la féminisation de Joseph ne plaît pas à Rome.

On constate dans le choix des prénoms en Nouvelle-France une influence marquée de la dévotion à la Sainte-Famille de même qu'une tendance à attribuer aux nouveau-nés les prénoms des parents et grands-parents, une façon de perpétuer à travers les prénoms la famille et de resserrer les liens entre les générations. Même si ce choix de prénoms est assez limité, le grand nombre de patronymes permet d'éviter la confusion.

Bibliogaphie:

Lachance, André, Vivre, aimer et mourir en Nouvelle-France. La vie quotidienne au XVIIe et XVIIIe siècles. Libre-Expression, Montréal, 2000
Lemieux, Denise, Les petits innocents. L'enfance en Nouvelle-France. Institut québecois de recherche sur la culture, Québec, 1985.
Ribordy, Geneviève, Les prénoms de nos ancêtres. Étude d'histoire sociale, Septentrion, Sillery, 1995.
Illustrations:

" Le nouveau-né " tableau de De la Tour, Erich Lessing / Art Resource, NY
" Musée de la civilisation, collection Sir "Thomas Chapais. No68-886




P.S. PERSONNELLEMENT, JE SUIS FORTEMENT ENCLIN À CROIRE QUE JEANNE ONAUS, AUNOIS, AUNEAU.... EST UNE AMÉRINDIENNE D'ORIGINE INCONNUE MAIS POSSIBLEMENT DE NATION ALGONQUINE. ON LA CITE AMÉRINDIENNE DANS PLUSIEURS PRDH ( MALGRÉ LEURS IMPERFECTIONS). C'EST SURTOUT LE CONTEXTE CULTUREL, FAMILIAL, ENFIN LE CONTEXTE DE VIE DE JEANNE QUI REFLÈTE LA CULTURE AMÉRINDIENNE. JEANNE EST MARRAINE DE QUELQUES AMÉRINDIENS. DE PLUS JEANNE & SON MARI PIERRE LEFEBVRE ONT PLUSIEURS DESCENDANTS AMÉRINDIENS DANS LEUR GÉNÉALOGIE. AVEC CE COUPLE, ON VOIT LE CONTACT AVEC LA CULTURE AMÉRINDIENNE DÈS LE DÉBUT DE LA COLONIE.

ENFIN, JE SUIS PARMI CEUX QUI CROIENT QUE JEANNE EST AMÉRINDIENNE, À MOINS DE LA PREUVE DU CONTRAIRE À CAUSE PRINCIPALEMENT DE SON CONTEXTE CULTUREL AVANT TOUT.

DE PLUS JEANNE ONAUS NE PEUT FAIRE PARTIE DES FILLES DU ROI CAR ELLE S'EST MARIÉE AVEC PIERRE LEFEBVRE VERS 1646 ALORS QUE LES FILLES DU ROI SONT ARRIVÉES EN NOUVELLE-FRANCE ENTRE 1663 ET 1673. SEULES LES AMÉRINDIENNES ÉTANT DISPONIBLES.

Voici un document de référence:


LES FILLES DU ROI ET LA TRAVERSÉE DE L'ATLANTIQUE


Entre 1663 et 1673, près de 850 femmes quittent la France pour aller s'établir en Amérique. Elles espèrent ainsi échapper à des conditions de vie misérables. Les dames qui sont chargées de les recruter leur racontent d'ailleurs qu'au-delà de l'océan se trouve un pays neuf, grand et beau où chacune peut avoir son mari, sa maison et son lopin de terre. Comment ne pas se laisser tenter ? Comment tourner le dos à un avenir qui semble si facile ? Beaucoup de filles sont séduites par l'aventure et choisissent de s'embarquer pour le Nouveau Monde.

Mais avant de fouler le sol de cette " terre promise ", les femmes doivent affronter les affres de l'Atlantique. Le bateau sur lequel elles s'embarquent n'est pas très grand. Il fait environ 37 à 50 mètres de long par 8 à 15 mètres de large. Généralement, il y a entre 100 et 300 passagers qui s'entassent dans l'entrepont pendant tout le voyage qui est de deux, parfois même de trois mois.

L'entrepont est exigu, pas tellement plus haut qu'un mètre soixante. Les passagers ne peuvent donc pas se tenir debout, ils doivent être constamment courbés. Ils ne peuvent pas non plus se déplacer à l'aide d'une chandelle à cause des risques d'incendie et sont contraints de rester dans l'obscurité. L'endroit ne comporte presque pas d'ouvertures, l'air est vicié et la puanteur abominable. La nuit, les passagers dorment dans le froid et l'humidité, sur des hamacs qui suivent le roulis des vagues, au milieu des rats et des râles de ceux qui sont malades.

La plupart des Filles du roi, n'ayant pas le pied marin, souffrent du mal de mer. Mais il y a aussi d'autres maladies qui se développent comme le scorbut, la variole, la rougeole, le typhus ou la dysenterie. Elles sont souvent dues à un manque d'hygiène. L'eau douce étant limitée sur le navire, les passagers ne se lavent pas et la promiscuité dans laquelle ils vivent accélère la propagation de la maladie. Il est fréquent qu'un simple rhume se transforme en véritable épidémie. Environ 10% des gens décèdent au cours de la traversée.

Il faut dire que l'alimentation n'aide pas à reprendre du mieux. Au départ, on a quelques poules, peut-être même un porc ou un bœuf, mais on doit les abattre dès la première tempête. On se nourrit ensuite à même les provisions de lard salé et de poisson fumé tout en espérant faire bonne pêche. Lorsqu'on ne peut pas avoir de viande, on mange des potages de semoule de blé, d'avoine, de pois ou de maïs. On apporte aussi un bon nombre de galettes qu'on ingurgite au bout de vingt ou trente jours même quand elles sont piquées de vers. L'eau douce, quant à elle, est contenue dans de grands barils de bois, mais au fil de la traversée elle devient brunâtre et de petites larves apparaissent à la surface. Les passagers sont obligés de la boire, quelquefois en se pinçant le nez, tellement elle sent mauvais.

Pour tromper l'ennui, les matelots organisent parfois des fêtes sur le pont. Ils jouent de la musique et les Filles du roi participent à la danse. Dans la journée, les filles se promènent sur le pont, parlent entre elles, les plus instruites lisent ou écrivent. De leur côté, les hommes s'adonnent à des jeux de hasard : cartes, dés, échecs ou dames. Mais la plus grande distraction de la traversée reste sans aucun doute le baptême qui a lieu sur les Grands Bancs, dans les environs de Terre-Neuve. Les Filles du roi ne subissent probablement pas ce rite, mais la majorité des passagers qui traversent l'Atlantique pour la première fois doivent payer une obole sans quoi on les jette dans un baquet plein d'eau.

Une fois arrivées à bon port, les Filles du roi éprouvent un vrai soulagement. Non seulement ont-elles enduré des conditions de vie épouvantables, mais elles ont aussi échappé à la menace des pirates maures qui sillonnent les mers du nord et détournent les navires vers les colonies espagnoles. Les icebergs constituent également un réel danger lors de la traversée de l'Atlantique Nord. C'est pourquoi les départs ont généralement lieu au printemps et au cours de l'été. Ainsi les Filles du roi débarquent-elles dans la colonie en juin, juillet, août et septembre au grand plaisir des hommes célibataires qui les attendent au port.

Bibliographie :

Lachance, André, "Survivre à l'Atlantique" dans Yves Landry, dir. Pour le Christ et le Roi, Libre Expression, Montréal, 1992, p. 51-69.
Proulx, Gilles, Entre France et Nouvelle-France, Éditions Broquet, Parcs Canada, Ottawa, 1984
Illustrations :

Arrival of Ships from France, Archives nationales du Canada, C-11924
A view of Quebec from the Bason, Archives nationales du Canada, C-787


AUTRE DOCUMENT:


ASSIMILATION ET EXTERMINATION DES AMÉRINDIENS


Assimiler signifie rendre semblable. C'est le fait de forcer des personnes d'un groupe social à adopter la culture, la langue, le mode de vie et même l'histoire d'un autre groupe. C'est ce que le gouvernement canadien a tenté de faire avec les autochtones du pays. Le gouvernement voulait que les autochtones abandonnent et oublient leur mode de vie, leur histoire et leur culture, en les obligeant à adopter la culture canadienne. Pour y parvenir, les autorités canadiennes ont adopté différentes lois.

Ainsi, une loi datant de 1857, stipulait que tout Indien de sexe masculin âgé d'au moins 21 ans, parlant français ou anglais, perdait son statut d'Indien, s'il renonçait à sa culture. Renoncer à sa culture pouvait signifier : vivre en-dehors de la réserve ou se soumettre aux mêmes lois que les autres Canadiens.

En 1876, selon l'Acte des Sauvages, qui s'appellera plus tard la Loi sur les Indiens, une Indienne perdait son statut d'Indien si elle épousait un non-Indien. Les enfants issus de ce couple devenaient aussi des non-Indiens.

À partir de 1880, tout Indien qui obtenait un diplôme universitaire perdait automatiquement son statut d'Indien, même s'il ne le désirait pas. En plus de faire diminuer la population amérindienne, cela eut pour conséquence de freiner la scolarisation des autochtones.

À partir de 1951, les Amérindiens perdaient aussi leur statut d'Indien dans différentes circonstances :

entrer dans une communauté religieuse;
voter aux élections fédérales;
s'engager dans l'armée.
Toutes ces lois très injustes et méprisantes à l'endroit des Indiens avaient pour but de faire disparaître les cultures amérindiennes du Canada. Ainsi, les autorités n'auraient plus eu à s'occuper de la situation des Amérindiens, puisqu'ils auraient tous disparu.

Mais les Amérindiens ont résisté et l'État canadien a renoncé à poursuivre cet objectif. Les Amérindiens peuvent maintenant s'épanouir davantage selon leur culture et leurs aspirations.

Ailleurs, la situation fut bien différente. Des Indiens et des nations entières furent exterminés, c'est-à-dire tués, massacrés. Ces tueries ont été commises aux Etats-Unis et aussi en Amérique du Sud, par les conquistadors (conquérants) espagnols et portugais qui s'emparèrent des terres des Indiens. Cela se passait aux 15e (1401 à 1500) et 16e (1501 à 1600) siècles.

Selon certains experts, ces massacres et les maladies transmises par les colons auraient fait passer les populations amérindiennes d'Amérique du Nord de 4 à 8 millions de personnes en 1500, à 375 000, en 1900. Mais d'autres historiens croient que ces chiffres sont trop élevés.

Bonne lecture!

Père Jacques



















jdelisle
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Inscrit le: 2007-05-21, 19:05

Messagepar Suzanne » 2009-02-14, 05:38

In regard to these statements quoted by Jacques Delisle:

<<Le prénom est donné lors du baptême par les parents et plus rarement par le parrain et la marraine. On choisit la plupart du temps le prénom du père, de la mère ou du grand-père comme pour perpétuer l'existence de ses ancêtres. D'ailleurs, il n'est pas rare que des frères ou des soeurs aient le même prénom. Ainsi s'assure-t-on le plus possible de sa pérennité. ??

<<Même des noms comme Charlotte, Ange ou Angélique sont réprouvés. >>

These comments appear to be from these sources:
" Le nouveau-né " tableau de De la Tour, Erich Lessing / Art Resource, NY
" Musée de la civilisation, collection Sir "Thomas Chapais. No68-886

Whoever wrote these comments, however, must surely not have spent as many hours with the actual records of Nouvelle France as I have. Naming children after grandparents may have been true at a later time or in other places, but in Nouvelle France, the overwhelming pattern is for the baptized (of whatever age) to be named for one or both godparents. Witness Pierre Couc’s godchild Perrine, a form of Pierre. The custom was also true in my family in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, although the baptized did not necessarily use the name of a godparent in daily life. My father was baptized Joseph Jean Alderic, the Alderic for his godfather, but my father used the name Jean.

As for the names cited as réprouvés, here are PRDH’s statistics for the names mentioned as they can be documented from the beginnings of the colony to 1799:

Rank (sexes combined) Frequency First name
44 1686 (times) CHARLOTTE

Rank (sexes combined) Frequency First name
32 2399 ANGELIQUE

Rank (sexes combined) Frequency First name
380 50 ANGE

See http://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/fr/

and type in the name you would like to learn about at
http://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/fr/nomsPrenoms.htm


In the nineteenth century records, furthermore, I noticed a phenomenon within my family and in others to give children names derived from Greece or Rome or the Old Testament. My grandmother’s given name, Polyxeme, is taken from Greek for “many guests,” a fitting name for this courageous woman who seems to have lived up to the meaning of her name.

I eventually decided on a theory to explain this explosion of names that had not appeared before, and I reported it in my Family History:

Mason Wade points out that while the French Revolution severed ties with the mother country it also resulted in the arrival of the “emigré French clergy, some fifty of whom helped to relieve the shortage of priests in Quebec” but which also “did much to give the French Canadians an enduring distrust of modern France.” He adds that their coming nevertheless

<<fortified the prestige of French culture, for they were highly educated men and some of them brought books and pictures which constituted a notable addition to the cultural resources of French Canada, largely cut off from its mother culture since the conquest. Their influence was greater than their number would indicate, since they took a leading role in the educational revival of the period, which saw seven new classical colleges established between 1802 and 1832, as well as many schools. >> Mason Wade, The French Canadians 1760-1967, Volume I, 1760-1911, Toronto: Macmillan of Canada, 1968, pp. 100-01.


And here I may at last have an explanation for the sudden appearance of first names derived from Greek and Latin, as well as from the Old and New Testament, in the registers of the nineteenth century. In the next generation, I cite the following names given to members of the Dupuis family: Zoë, Théotiste, Léocadie, Onésime and Domatile, and in the following generation Herménégilde, Exilde, Ovide, and Alexandrine. The same is true for the nineteenth-century ancestors of my other grandparents: Tharsile, Octavie, Zenaide, Zénon, Appoline, Eulalie, Théodora, all taking their place alongside the ubiquitous Maries and Josephs. Names to unbury the dead, my father used to say when referring to the names of his Uncles Seraphin, Maximin, Isaië, Nephtali, and Félix. There was even a Napoléon.

The important point I wish to make here is that practices from one era or society are not necessarily the same for other eras or societies. You must not apply the attitudes of one age to another, as you appear to be doing in citing this comment and others:

<<Ainsi, une loi datant de 1857, stipulait que tout Indien de sexe masculin âgé d'au moins 21 ans, parlant français ou anglais, perdait son statut d'Indien, s'il renonçait à sa culture. Renoncer à sa culture pouvait signifier : vivre en-dehors de la réserve ou se soumettre aux mêmes lois que les autres Canadiens.
Père Jacques>>

In Nouvelle France, no such law or attitude existed. Please do not apply the laws of a later society to an earlier or suggest that the later attitude always existed.

There is much more I could comment on, Jacques, about the long posts you make quoting others, but this will have to do for now. I have been a student of Nouvelle France for more than 30 years, most of my reading in French and in original documents. I have yet to read a secondary source that did not have at least a few misunderstandings because the author did not spend as much time as I have with the original records but, instead, cited the work of others.

The other point to be made is that a reader must always consider historical perspective in evaluating the writing of a historian. Those who came before us did not have access to many details that are now available, and so they had to guess from what they did know. Always look at the publication date of a secondary source. For example, the biography of Elizabeth Couc from the Dictionary of Canadian Biography that you cited was written by 1978. Much further research has been done, first, by Simone Vincens in about the same year, and by me in the last ten years. I located details Vincens was not able to find at the time she did her research.

History is always on-going…. I have been reading the forum for at least two years, but, because of family responsibilites, I did not have time to join the discussion until now. I will return when my obligations allow me to respond.

Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Descendant of Marie Mité8ameg8K8é
Michigan, USA
Suzanne
Membre
 
Messages: 16
Inscrit le: 2009-02-11, 08:11

Messagepar Pierre » 2009-02-14, 20:55

M. Jacques Delisle,

Vu la publication de l’analyse rigoureuse de Mme Suzanne Boivin Sommerville et la publication du «scan» de l’acte litigieux sur l’origine de Jeanne Onaus, si vous désirez toujours prouver son origine sauvage, vous devez maintenant retenir les services d’un professionnel capable de lire ledit scan de l’acte et démontrer la fiabilité de sa méthode.

Un ami qui faisait ce boulot ingrat à une certaine époque m’a confié qu’il «décryptait» ce genre de documents en agrandissant l’image à l’aide d’un projecteur.

Cela ne fera toutefois pas des Métis de tous ses descendants au sens du ch. 35 de la Loi constitutionnelle de 1982..

En effet, si vous désirez démontrer que vous êtes Métis, vous devrez prouver vos liens avec un ancêtre appartenant par naissance, adoption ou autrement à une communauté métisse historique.

Bonne chance
Pierre
Membre
 
Messages: 2374
Inscrit le: 2005-03-23, 10:09

Messagepar Saguingoira » 2009-02-15, 08:47

Copie microfilmé du Fond Drouin, Registre de la paroisse Immaculée-Conception de Trois-Rivières.
Folio 199 et 200, en latin.


Image
Ces deux pages du registre contiennent six baptêmes, et aucun acte n’est signé de façon individuel par le curé, comme on peut le voir dans d’autres registres.

Copie d’acte de baptême de Perrine amérindienne le 27 août 1651, folio 200, 2e acte, en latin.

Image

Parrain et marraine Pierre Couc dit Lafleur de Cognac et Jeanne Oneau épouse de Pierre Lefebvre.
Comme on peut le constaté Jeanne Oneau "Joanna Onaut" en latin n’est pas mentionné amérindienne.

Notice de l’ancien PRDH, format volume (livre) ;

B: 1651-08-27, N: 1651-08-24
01 PERRINE o: AMERINDIEN (791) C F
02 MARIE / KITARANGOUKOUE o: AMERINDIEN (791) MERE F
03 o: AMERINDIEN (701) PERE M
04 PIERRE /KOUC / LAFLEURDECOGNAC M
05 JEANNE / ONAUS o: AMERINDIEN (791) M F
06 PIERRE / LEFEBVRE M M
07 JOSEPH I / DUPERON p:02 C M

HomeSearchesFamily TreesMailing ListsMessage BoardsWeb SitesPasswordsHelp
THE ST-GELAIS FAMILIES OF NORTH AMERICA
Entries: 253544 Updated: 2009-02-04 03:28:38 UTC (Wed) Contact: Bob St. Gelais
Je connais Robert (Bob) St-Gelais, je vais le contacté, il changera la donnée avec plaisir.

L’erreur est due à un employé du PRDH qui a traité cet acte à l’époque de la transcription pour fabrication de la série des volumes du PRDH.

Erreur qui à été corrigé sur le site internet du PRDH, mais les livres demeure en bibliothèque et archives, donc d’autres reprendrons encore cette erreur.

Les sites internet de Monsieur et Madame, tout le monde aussi propage grandement l’erreur que d’autres copistes d’internet qui ne vérifie jamais avec les actes originaux, reprennent encore, encore et encore……….d’un site à l’autre........Ainsi soit-il………….Toujours et Encore……


Bonne journée à tous !
Darquise
Saguingoira
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Inscrit le: 2007-06-02, 23:27

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